DV on the cheap--advice needed to ugrade from Hi8

rwsjr wrote on 8/21/2003, 10:19 PM
A small pin broke in my Hi8 camcorder’s cable and RCA has discontinued the camera as well as providing any accessories that went with the camera. Unless I can find a replacement part on eBay or do an inspired job with my soldering iron, I will have to settle for video from my composite out instead of my S out--a setback. My camera still works but I am coming to the realization that an upgrade to DV is probably eminent.

Here’s my question—any suggestions for a low cost DV camera? Decent picture and sound quality is important (which I recognize may relative given the diversity of users in this group). The size or quality of a flip out view finder is irrelevant as is AV pass through. I still plan to keep my ADVC 100, so it really boils down to the camera. Since my current camera still works, I think I’ll skip Digital 8. All the stuff I shot on my 8mm camcorders is safely on DVD.

I’ve seen DV cameras for as little as $399. Would the video quality of such a camera be an improvement as compared to my 1997 model RCA Hi8? I’ve been able to tolerate the video on my current camera, a reason to hold out but I have not idea what I am missing. Should I pay more than I expect or less than I should for a DV camera?

Thank you in advance for your informed opinions. By the way, if anyone has any DV screen captures, point me in that direction.

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 8/21/2003, 10:47 PM
I was intrigued by the Canon ZR series until PC Magazine panned them. They are very small and very cheap and, of course, Canon has a great name in DV camcorders with their GL and XL line.

The Sony models are all good, but Sony gets a premium, and I was disappointed with the auto-focus on a recent low-end Sony DV camcorder that I borrowed.

Panasonic has historically been the center of most of the consumer camcorder business, but they were slow (in my opinion) to get their DV camcorders into distribution. I have no information on any of their models, but I'm sure others can comment.

Bottom line: Sony seldom disappoints.
riredale wrote on 8/22/2003, 5:01 PM
You'll love DV. If you can't find a decent Sony miniDV camcorder in your price range (I wouldn't be worried about buying a used unit, as long as it was recently calibrated), you could always buy a Sony D8 machine, which records exactly the same DV signal, but on 8mm tape. My Sony TRV8 (miniDV) has an excellent autofocus, as does my friend's D8 camcorder.

The website below has a ton of useful reading material. It says that on a scale of 1 to 10, Hi8 rates a "5.5" while DV rates a "9."

http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html
Jsnkc wrote on 8/22/2003, 5:04 PM
Also be sure to check out E-bay you can usually get really good deals there on DV cameras. I picked up a brand new $700 camera for only $250 earlier this year. Just be sure to ask all the questions you have to before you buy, there are still some "shady" sellers out there. And I hate to have to say this in this forum due to the recent changes but um, try to avoid sony, their consumer stuff is not nearly as durable as their professional stuff. I'd go for a Panasonic or Canon if possible.
pete_h wrote on 8/22/2003, 5:35 PM
My Sony 8mm (vintage 1989) died before I started with Digital Video, so I was forced to choose for backward compatabilty. I ended up with a Sony DV-350 at about $500-

After using the camera to play back and capture as AVI's, I started to use it as a camera, and I was very impressed with the quality of DV !

You say your not concerned about your old tapes since you all ready have your DVD's.

I hope that you saved the AVI files created before you created your DVD's because the mpeg2 files on those DVD's are compressed. If you ever choose to use those mpeg2 files later for further editing, you will be re-compressing them again and the final result is not going to look as good.

Technology keeps changing, and I believe that you must have backups or the original tape just in case a major change takes place.

Think of this:

1'st we had 'film' .... then VHS / BETA Max, ....then 8mm, then Hi 8 / VHS-C,
..... then DVD's.....WHO KNOWS WHAT IS NEXT!

Oh Well, .... just my thoughts
Begbie wrote on 8/23/2003, 12:51 AM
Please check with your Jaycar or equivelent cable supplier - i bet either the newer cams or another cam or something uses nearly the same cable OR they will make one for your or next to nothing.

Almost ALL cables can be re produced for under $50
farss wrote on 8/23/2003, 3:01 AM
rwsjr,
which pin on what cable?
From what you've said it sounds like an SVideo cable. Unless the camera uses some wierd connector for its SVideo connections these cables are available anywhere. Even those horrid things that Sony put on their D8 cameras for A/V are available from several non Sony sources and I can now even buy the plugs to make my own leads.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/23/2003, 8:23 AM
I have a Panasonic PV-DV601 and I love it. Great image quality, great sound, 20x optical zoom, built-in light, Infrared for no light recording. I mostly record my family so having a good optical zoom to get shots of the kids on stage at the school play from the back of the auditorium was a big feature for me. Most DV cams only have a 10x zoom although they are improving. The low light capability is still not as good as my old Panasonic VHS-C camera (5 lux (new) vs. 1 lux (old)) but hopefully new DV cameras are getting better.

So it depends on what you want to use the camera for. I would list all the features you like about your old camera and try and find a new one with the same features. With regard to quality, they all record DV the same way on the tape. So the quality comes down to the optics just like any camera. You get what you pay for.

~jr
rwsjr wrote on 8/23/2003, 6:42 PM
The RCA cable on for the camera (PRO 881HB) uses a proprietary square male plug with several pins for left and right audio channels as well as S-Video and composite video. I know for sure one of the S-Video connection pins was the one that broke because the picture coming off the camera is in black and white and the audio still works fine. Fortunately, the camera has a standard composite out so I can still get at the video, albeit at a lower quality.

I found a camera identical to my old one on e-Bay. At $15.00, I may be able to get a second camera and get a replacement cable.

If I can determine how the wiring works, I may be able to come up with my own connection. The camera still works fine but something like this appears to be the excuse I need to upgrade.

One thing I've noticed about the DV cameras is that the price seems to be vary according to the size of the flip out monitor (which I could care less about). I really don't care if the view finder is B/W as long as the image quality is better than my current Hi-8. I have also have stereo mics on my current camera but after six years of using this camera, I'm not even sure that is very important.

Is the cheapest DV camera with firewire out better than any Hi8 camera with a single CCD?

(Thanks for the help)
farss wrote on 8/23/2003, 7:49 PM
Last question first: I'd say YES!
Flip out monitors are a real pain, I'd always go for the smallest one, the hinges seem stronger. I'd also avoid color viewfinders, despite what the marketing idiots may think they are a negative feature, they don't have enough resolution to judge focus.

Biggest problem finding a camera is like everything consumer you end up paying more just to get more useless widgets. Why the hell do I need Bluetooth in a camera? Let me guess they had a surplus of the chips in inventory.

As for your existing camera, hmm. i guess that's one thing to look for in a new camera, odd connectors! If you really like the camera tell them you'll buy it if they supply an extra cable. With a lot of the stuff that uses proprietry connectors a cable can cost an awful lot even if you can buy one.

I've made up a few adaptors so cameras can be run off car batteries and the like. Its a piece of cake on pro cameras, they all use a standard 4 pin Cannon connector, yet consumer ones are a nightmare. Ended up pulling a dead battery apart to use it as a connector.
Begbie wrote on 8/24/2003, 6:31 PM
I have a JVC DVL1020 and it has the 3 1/2in LCD, which is one of the reasons i bought it - its is SO clear and bright and makes for EASY filming - obviously i dont make hollywood films, just the kids and stuff.

It has colour viewfinder, which as some one else said is just useless, but i have sony 8mm cam as well and the BW viewfinder is much worse.

Unless you have a shoulder mounted cam why wouldnt you go for the big LCD as long as the picture is clear enough in it?

Mine has all the other features that all the other 1ccd miniDV cams have as well. I just LOVE it.