DVD Debauchery

jkrepner wrote on 1/11/2005, 7:05 AM
Okay, maybe that is a little harsh - but I have a quick question and a forum search didn't produce an easy answer. Basically, is it best to export to mpeg2 from vegas, or convert AVI to mpeg2 in DVDA? I have a friend's wedding on my timeline and it looks pretty bad when exported from Vegas as mpeg2 and played off the Vegas timeline. I've tried the NTSC DVD encoder setting set to Best, and it yields a one hour ceremony around 1.4 GB. When I goof with the settings and raise everything to Best, and quality sliders to Best and max at 8,000 average 6,500 min 4,000 I get a slightly better looking mpeg2 that clocks in around 2.4 GB, but still not great. Still doesn't look as good as previous programs I've encoded with. I'm sure it's me, so:

1. Is it best to convert in Vegas as I suspect?
2. Any personal encoder setting recommendations to yield the best pic quality (size not important) would be recommended.
3. Does Vegas play mpeg2 files from the timeline the same as the appear when burned to DVD?

Thanks in advance,

Jeff

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/11/2005, 7:24 AM
First, why are you playing it back as MPEG from the Vegas timeline? Vegas isn't an MPEG editor.
Second, just use the NTSC-DVD preset in the render options, you'll be just fine.
Remember that MPEG encoding is content dependent, and so you'll get a better picture when you feed it good pictures. Have you yet burned a DVD containing the MPEGS you're looking at? You might be surprised. If you can't get a good encode with the presets, I'd respectfully suggest you look at what's happening with the content. Vegas isn't the very best software encoder out there, but it's darn good and doesn't cost 2K.
rs170a wrote on 1/11/2005, 7:27 AM
1. Is it best to convert in Vegas as I suspect?

My personal opinion is yes.

2. Any personal encoder setting recommendations to yield the best pic quality (size not important) would be recommended.
If you have a lot of stills in your project, use the "Best" setting. Otherwise, "Good" is good enough.
Render the audio & video files separately. The audio gets rendered as an AC3 and the video as mpeg-2 using the NTSC (or PAL) DVD Architect preset. The standard DVD preset has the bitrate settings far too low for most folks. As long as you use the same filename for both, DVDA will import both of them when you select either one.

3. Does Vegas play mpeg2 files from the timeline the same as the appear when burned to DVD?

Vegas doesn't really like mpeg-2 files so don't worry about how it looks from the timeline or your computer monitor. The real test is how it looks on a TV set.

Mike
gordyboy wrote on 1/11/2005, 7:34 AM
As you are using DVDA, I think you should be using the "NTSC DVD Architect" template rather than the normal NTSC-DVD template for the best results. Need to change the video quality setting to 'best' as well.

Cheers

gordyboy

jkrepner wrote on 1/11/2005, 7:46 AM
Spot,

Thanks and I concur that the final mpeg is only as good as the source you are feeding it. My number 3 comment sort of dawned on me that perhaps Vegas isn't playing back the MPEG file the same way it will appear on the DVD player, but I wasn't using it as an MPEG editor. After my test encoding, I placed all three clips on the Vegas timeline to test and saw little difference in terms of PQ. A final burned DVD is the only way to test I suppose. I'll stick with the NTSC DVD recommendation and I'll burn a DVD to see what it looks like when played back as the viewer will see it. Oh... Trust me, the content sucks. It came from a 1/2" JVC full-size DV camera, but the ceremony was at dusk and is a little on the dark side. I suspect the Videographer had the gain and everything wide open on his camera, so the mpeg encoding is just magnifying the already crunched signal.

I had assumed that I'd have to split the ceremony and reception up, but I might be able to fit the 1 hour 45 minutes ordeal on one DVD using the NTSC DVD setting in Vegas. The last encoder I used was a Pinnacle DC1000 that was a real-time hardware encoder and it did a good job but the file sizes always seemed really big. I guess when I saw the 1.4GB file out of Vegas, I sort of suspected that I might have done something wrong.

Thanks - I'll report back.


jkrepner wrote on 1/11/2005, 8:07 AM
Gordyboy and Mike,

Okay, my first Vegas MPG test was with the DVD Architect setting, but it didn't have sound and I figured it wasn't worth the additional hassle of exporting sound separately. I'll export the as an .mpg and then again as an .ac3 and compare it with the NTSC DVD setting. From what everyone has said so far, things will look better after I get the files on a real DVD player.

Side question: how many minutes do people average on a single side DVD using the "good" and "best" settings? Does multipass introduce further PQ loss?

Thanks again.
rs170a wrote on 1/11/2005, 8:20 AM
...fit the 1 hour 45 minutes ordeal on one DVD...

You can (I've done 2 hr. easily) but you'll have to drop the bit rate down to allow it to fit. Either render the file out as an avi and let DVDA do the math for you or use a bitrate calculator like this one or .

Mike
Hitime wrote on 1/11/2005, 9:59 AM
Just a quick aside -- I find Procoder with Stormencoder (Canopus) does better than Vegas at mpeg2 encoding and is in real time (1hr video encoded in 1hr) and does not cost 2K. The result works well in DVDA2 over a wide range of Procoder settings.

Whether it is worth re-investing I doubt
jkrepner wrote on 1/12/2005, 7:59 AM
Update:

After burning a DVD, I must say that I am impressed. As mentioned, the picture does look better when playing the mpg from a DVD verses playing it off the Vegas timeline. The DVD I burned was exported from the timeline as NTSC DVD Best, with all of the "quality" sliders cranked up. I suspect I would have been fine using the default positions. I plan to test the same footage later, but set to default. Over on the DVDA board there was an interesting link about the law of diminishing returns apply to MPEG encoding.

Also, I am very pleased with DVD Architect. It worked with no issues, and the NTSC preview is great.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Jeff