DVD-R compatibility with consumer players

Peyton wrote on 12/15/2003, 10:58 AM
Insights, observations, head-scratchers....

From responses to my thread "DVD-R won't play anymore?" and a similar one about a DVD hanging at random spots, I got some ideas to try. I'll share my results

Our Sony DVD player started hanging and pixellating on DVD-Rs that it had played just fine, before. A response to my post indicated that Sony DVD players tend to glitch after a while. A note in its manual about "Disks to avoid" mentioned any DVDs with stickers or tape on them. Our worst-playing DVD-Rs had DVD labels put on them, and the DVD-Rs that it played better had no labels. Odd, but real. Still under warranty, getting the Sony serviced would mean shipping it to a Sony service center, and including some of the DVD-Rs that it didn't like. It would take 3 or 4 weeks, "or so." We started shopping for a replacement, not made by Sony. The current Sony was a replacement for a previous Sony that quit working entirely.

The JVC XVN50BK player that we use upstairs plays all the DVD-Rs that we've thrown at it, old or new, with labels or not. Although it has progressive scan output, it's kind of a low-end player. However, it does work very well.

I read an excellent, highly-technical review of the Pioneer DV-563AS. It has higher quality video and audio output than less expensive players, it specifically claims to play DVD-Rs, and it will also play DVD-Audio and SACD disks. We got one. It looked much better and sounded much better than what we'd gotten used to. It also glitched on the first DVD-R that we put into it.

In the other thead I mentioned, I saw discussion of recording DVD-Rs at 1x, rather than 2x or 4x, so we tried that. It made a difference! I mean, it fixed the problem, for now. The DVD-R cut at 1x played flawlessly in the Pioneer.

I've found three sets of variables that could be affecting what disks play well in a consumer DVD player:
1. Whether or not it has a DVD label stuck to it. This is easy to test - I'll retest the new DVD-R that we cut at 1x, make sure it is still playing right, and then stick a label on it. Will it still play?
2. On the Sony and Pioneer, the DVD-Rs that had the most problems were the ones that had been played a *lot*. (These also were the ones with labels.) Will a frequently-played DVD-R degrade over time? This will take time and play-cycles to answer. The possibility will probably result in us archiving DVD directories that we really like.
3. The *one* DVD-R that we cut at 1x seems to play perfectly. None of the ones cut at 2x or 4x do. This is a really small sample size, but I think I'll take the minor extra time to cut my DVDs at 1x, from now on.

The only solid conclusion that I have so far is that the JVC XVN50BK has excellent compatibility, the Pioneer is finicky, and the Sony's have been unreliable. Reasons are unknown, but I have some interesting hypotheses to test.

Comments?

Peyton

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 12/15/2003, 1:40 PM
There is a huge database of this kind of information at:

DVDrHelp.com

You didnt' say what DVD-R recorder you are using. This can also make a difference.

General consensus is that media can make a huge difference. In addition, some media apparently works with some DVD burners and not with others, although I am a little more skeptical of that claim. As to burning speed, I'm not sure I have conclusive evidence that this matters.

Another site that has interesting information on this subject is:

Lordsmurf.com
Peyton wrote on 12/15/2003, 6:53 PM
Good tips and good point, John,

I use a Pioneer A05 to author my DVDs.

I look forward to checking out those site! What's your favorite media?

Cheers,
Peyton
mfhau wrote on 12/15/2003, 11:30 PM
Our little success story using the Sony DRU-510A.

We hadn't burnt a DVD until 6 weeks ago and I found myself in the "Dad can you produce them for me" team.
After posing a few questions on this forum - and I thank you all very much you've helped me out of the poo and my daughter achieve great success & kudos - we produced some 140 DVDs - 3 different versions - one being 2.4 GB with 3 submenus and 9 mpeg2 items - the SEs being 4.25GB with 3 sub menus and 12 or 13 mpeg2s. Everyting was done by the book using Vegas and DVDA and this forum and the troubleshooting tips and EPMs guide.

Media used was largely Imation 2x burnt at 2x, Imation 4x burnt at 2x, Verbatim 2x burnt at 2x (spindles of 20 or 25)
then one-offs- various 4x media Fuji, JVC burnt at 4x. Everything was -R.

OK the results - all the media plays fine in any PC DVD - no need to take notes as I have no failures here - tested across all 4 home PCs and many work & school PCs and laptops. No dramas.

Players:
X-Box - doesn't like the last menu item on the top menu on any of the DVDs - this is a shame. Plays both 2x & 4x recorded media.
XMS-750/Skyworth 750 - was one of the early all you can eat players - plays anything recorded at 2x - hates everything at 4x.

As yet we have had no complaints/returns only compliments about the work so I think the 2x burning was a plus (none of the 4x burns have gone out to the audience). It's being viewed I know that - so stick to the slow burn!!
johnmeyer wrote on 12/16/2003, 12:21 PM
What's your favorite media?

One reason I refer everyone to the Lordsmurf site is that I agree with absolutely everything the guy says. If you look at his media results, you'll see that the Maxell 2x is his favorite. Mine too. Unfortunately, it is getting hard to find, having been superceded by the Maxell 4x media. I don't have any experience with this new media to know whether it will be as compatible as the old. My reason for liking the Maxell 2x (it's the one in the orange box, has a green silk-screened top on the disks, and comes with jewell cases) is that several tests posted around the net all show this to be the most compatible (i.e., runs on the most players) of any DVD-R media so far.
magendim wrote on 12/16/2003, 2:50 PM
We've been using Verbatim and Mitsui printable DVD-Rs with very good results (they print very well also). They play in our Sony, Panasonic, Magnavox and Koss players. We've used both the 2x and 4x media. If you're distributing discs for others to use, I would stay far away from labels, especially the glossy type. They fail to play in many players and found they cause more trouble than they're worth. The generic cheap DVD-R media is great for quick tests, but not dependable for duplication/replication or for customers.
Peyton wrote on 12/17/2003, 5:16 AM
The LordSmurf site has a wealth of information. What really bugged my eyes out was the section on Blank Media Quality. Last evening, we burned a DVD at 1x, and tried it out this morning. It makes the new Pioneer 563A player crash. Arrrrgh!

Turns out that the pack of 50 Memorex DVD-Rs that we bought are junk. Using the freeware version of DVDInfo, I found that our Memorex DVD-Rs are actually made by a company called CMC, which are notoriously bad. Buyer beware!

I'll be shopping for TDK, "Apple", or Maxell, today. Reading the article at Lordsmurf reveals that blank media makes a huge difference.

Cheers,
Peyton
johnmeyer wrote on 12/17/2003, 4:51 PM
If you like the guy's stuff (Lordsmurf), he accepts donations. I sent him five bucks. (I don't know him, and am in no way affiliated -- just like his advice.)
LeeV wrote on 12/19/2003, 8:30 AM
The cheap players work the best. I have found that Ampex will play anything. Some of the more expensive players like Panansonic and Sony won't play DVDA at all.
Peyton wrote on 12/24/2003, 5:03 AM
The Pioneer DV-563A DVD player is a heckuva machine, but it really hates DVD-R.

A fairly new model, it brings high-end features within reach of people like me. Audio and video quality are a clear step up from the Sony we replaced, and it plays DVD-Audio and SACD disks. Very cool!

I does not play or glitches during carefully authored DVD-Rs, burned at 1x on our Pioneer A05. It doesn't like TDK or Princo disks, both recommended by Lordsmurf, and it doesn't like Memorex, really manufactured by CMC and panned by Lordsmurf.

Our Toshiba portable player and our inexpensive JVC player upstairs plays everything we put in them. We've had two Sony's play DVD-Rs for a while, and then start having problems. I think LeeV has a point. Maybe the less expensive machines have sloppier tolerances or something, and are therefore not so picky about what you put in them.

We love the sound and video from the Pioneer 563A on commercial disks! It would have been awfully clever of me to have taken a couple of home-cooked DVDs to the store when I bought it, though. I think we'll get another JVC player to sit on top of it. The N50 is really cheap, and works well. Not a stellar performer, but it does work consistently.

We'll be giving home-cooked DVDs to a lot of people for Christmas, and I'll ask them for more info on how they play and what players they play on. My best friend has a Sony player, and I'm apprehensive about that.

Cheers,
Peyton
AudioIvan wrote on 12/24/2003, 6:54 PM
DVD-R Compatibility....?
That DVD Player Pioneer 563A it's very good,but thesedays look for DVD Players with twin laser pickup.For the best compatibility every time I produce DVD-R or whatever I use IFOEdit.So for example after you compile the DVD fire up IFOEdit ,open your VIDEO_TS_IFO press GET VTS Sectors and if something DVDA messed up with the authoring IFOEdit will fixit.Also for higher compatibility if you do just movie only(NO MENU) you can do it in IFOEdit easy,safe & fast.Another thing to mention is that DVD-Lab produces more compatible DVD's than DVDA.Most of the cheap DVD Players do a FULL Speed spin as soon as you put the DVD in the player,but more sofisticated DVD players (like Denon) play the DVD in a different way.
I dont know about you guys,but I'm thinking of getting MP4+AAC compatible DVD Player(as soon as they come out) why? Well obviously Ivan & Menno(Nero Guys from Croatia) did amazing job with improving the codecs.AAC 5.1 support + Nero Digital Video(Home Theatre Template) can put about 3 hours of video(HIGH QUALITY) on a DVD-R.I did couple of tests & the result it's excellent, the only thing is,the only possible way to play the DVD it's if you have PC based Home Entertainment.Also about DVD labeling Canon i865 does very good job(prints on disks).Anyway so far so good,be on the lookout for new DVD format EVD(Enhanced Video,Versatile Disk) at least double the capacity of the DVD & at least double the picture quality....??!!!
I'll wait to see.......
AudioIvan