DVDA 5.0 build 178 and .mp4 crashes

cmega wrote on 6/22/2013, 12:55 PM
Hi - I have two 2-minute test .mp4 files created in Vegas Platinum Pro 12. They are the Mainconcept format, prepping for DVDA use.
I import into DVDA. I create a menu with two buttons, each pointing to the two mp4 files. I am able only to preview one mp4. It reaches completion, then hangs DVDA. I am stuck. Must quit and restart.
As we speak I am bypassing the preview, and going straight to MAKE DVD. The rendering is now hung at, what appears to be, the end of the first mp4 file.
Every hang, whether preview or rendering, freezes DVDA behavior. In Windows Processes, the "ErrorReportLauncher.exe" is trying to run, but can't. Ie., DVDA crashes but can't even launch the error reporter.

I had this problem with DVDA 5.0 build 165 I think, updated to 178 - still exists. ANY HELP APPRECIATED.

My goal is to use Vegas Movie Studio to create MP4 files for HD downloads, but then use DVDA to create a standard DVD using those MP4 movies without having to re-render in Vegas.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 6/22/2013, 3:21 PM
DVDs are made from MPEG-2 video, not MP4.
Use the appropriate MPEG-2 DVD Architect video template in Vegas.
Use the appropriate Dolby AC3 DVD Audio template and render a separate audio file.
Import the video to Architect, the audio will follow.
cmega wrote on 6/22/2013, 5:35 PM
Import media allows .mp4. I just did it.
I also experimented this afternoon - if MP4's are created in Vegas 12, they totally crap out in DVDA 5. *ONLY* when MP4's are created in Vegas 9 (my old favorite) do they work in DVDA 5.

It is fine to bring in hidef files into DVDA, and when MAKE DVD is done, DVDA does the compression (rather than using Vegas for the MPEG-2 compression in preparation for DVDA)

So Vegas 12 continues to suck. I have hated it since installing it. Vegas 9 was so much better in terms of stability and editing and simplicity. The only thing 12 did was fix the cross-fade audio click problem that was inherent in V9.

So many workarounds to get simple tasks done. Ah well... My test now is to render a 2 hour video in mp4 using vegas 9, pray to heaven that it saves MARKERS, then render down in DVDA and hope the markers import :^)
videoITguy wrote on 6/22/2013, 6:30 PM
cmega, your workflow begs to be seen convoluted and not purposeful.

DVD structure is Mpeg 2 video stream - why do you want to feed it something else and make DVDArchitect do the conversion - when in fact you have absolutely more control by giving it a good Mpeg2 video in the first place.

AN MP4 is NOT AN MP4 -meaning there are absolute number N variations of it - particularly so in the compression applied - so it is a horrible choice for workflows from one step to the next. It's usage was designed to be an enduser file - not an intermediate post production step in video production.

Mpeg2 streams in SCS products hold their marker positions properly - not so much in other file/codecs.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/22/2013, 6:45 PM
The "feature" in DVDA to import MP4, DV and other program streams is there for soccer moms. Nothing more.
Resize, deinterlace, and encode where you have some control over it -- in Vegas.
https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/84/
cmega wrote on 6/22/2013, 8:38 PM
Thanks for the responses everyone. I agree it's not the most aesthetically pleasing way to approach this. Per my original post:
"My goal is to use Vegas Movie Studio to create MP4 files for HD downloads, but then use DVDA to create a standard DVD using those MP4 movies without having to re-render in Vegas."

I am trying not to render twice in Vegas. Since Vegas rendering takes about 50% longer to render HD than Mpeg2 I was hoping to do a long rendering once, and let DVDA do its own version of rendering while crunching down to DVD size. In other words I have no use for MPEG2 files other than to create the TS_ folders in DVDA. However I *do* have use for the .mp4 files, so I thought perhaps they could do double duty - stand on their own, and also serve as the feeder files for DVDA.

My latest MPEG2 rendering took 24 hours for two hours of footage. That easily would have taken 36+ hours for HD rendering. I don't have GPU.

I've tried using MPEGStreamclip to convert formats, but it isn't working for me on any conversion type. So my only option is the combination of Vegas and DVDA.

Ahhh.. but what I haven't tried - using Vegas H.264 rendering for .mp4, then reimporting the finished mp4 back into vegas and rendering that down for mpeg2. There would be no plugins / extra processing on that second rendering, so while it's still converting H.264 codec down to MPEG2 level, it wouldn't need any extra color correction / sharpening, etc. I know I'm doing double compression, but I'm also dropping from 1280x720 down to 780x480 so there should be some excess pixel-slush in the size conversion to assist with refining the 2nd compression.

My main enemy is time - if I can save steps and get decent results, that's what I'm after.

(The other fundamental issue - DVDA should not accept .mp4 files as input media if it cannot handle them. Accepting them, then hanging/crashing while previewing or making a DVD is unacceptable. If it doesn't work... don't allow mp4 to be imported... plus it is still funky why mainconcept mp4's created in Vegas 9 work fine in DVDA version 5 - but mainconcept mp4's created in vegas 12 don't. DVDA version 5 and Vegas 12 came in the same suite!) DVDA version 4.5 does not recognize .mp4 as input, hence my attempt at using version 5. If version 5 imports .mp4, it should not crash.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/22/2013, 8:59 PM
I see, it's two renders from the Vegas project that create your time bottleneck.
Thanks for explaining that.

One thing you could try is render a HD DNxHD intermediate in Vegas (do a search), then render both your HD and DVD files from that. Net time savings, if any, is unknown; you'll have to test that with your work. If you do that, you may want to consider Handbrake for the final MP4 encode, which can be both sharper and faster than finishing in Vegas.

Rendering a third generation MPEG-2 from your MP4 is disadvantageous, whether you do it in Architect or in Vegas, for a number of reasons including inherent quality losses.
cmega wrote on 6/27/2013, 9:09 AM
The DNxHD solution starts off great... It completes generation of the .mov.tmp file (55gb) and begins to copy it to the actual .mov file. (I'm using Vegas Pro Platinum V9 for the render)

However in the final seconds (after a 2 hour copy) it fails saying movie file could not be created. Both the .tmp and the .mov files are removed. So 12 hours of rendering and 110gb of rendered movie files are lost.

This happened twice.

I had done a much smaller render with DNxHD as a test case, and subsequent "re-render" into mp4 and mpg2. It looked like the time savings would be huge. I'm talking about rendering perhaps 30 seconds of footage.

So I may be stuck doing a double render - once for mp4 1280x720, then a separate DVD render for mpeg2 at 720x480.

Or maybe I just can't render 1.5 hours of footage in one swoop. I'll have to break into smaller chunks. Fine for the hi-def MP4, but not so good for the DVD creation.

In DVDA I easily import multiple mpeg2 movie segments, but my real issues are markers, and hitting the "back" button on the remote. One would think hitting "NEXT" on the remote would advance to the next .mpg file, but it doesn't. You can tell DVDA the "end action" of a movie, that is, to continue on to the next movie segment after the first completes. This is great if you just let the movie run freely. But if you hit the NEXT button, it ignores it. Likewise, there's no way to tell each movie segment what to do if PREVIOUS button is hit. The only option I've ever found with DVDA is to revert to the main menu and have a button for every segment of the DVD that you want to navigate. Bottom line - multiple movie segments (say 20) to comprise a 1.5 hour movie - there's no way to insert "Prev" and "next" commands to jump around the movie. You must return to the main menu and have a button that navigates you into each segment... IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO NAVIGATE ??

- Chris
videoITguy wrote on 6/27/2013, 12:00 PM
Cmega, I suggest you get schooled on DVD authoring - because I believe you entirely miss the point of the workflow process.

1) Length of render activities in an NLE - Use only regions or brief (10-18 min) sections for a single render step- Use intermediates of Cineform or Avid codecs to render to intermediate NLE production if you must contemplate that workflow.

2) Render only appropriate streams for the appropriate output. MP4 goes directly to a client on a USB stick. It is NOT an intermediate or DVD delivery step. Use DVD MPEG2 streams for DVD delivery.

3) Contemplate rendering for DVD output short length streams- they can be assembled in DVDAPro in the authoring process. Use markers as appropriate - created in the NLE.

4) about the Prev-Next button - this is a complicated authoring issue that you should address in a simpler way. Don't ask your client to work with prev-next because you can't control there display system or their originality in making play choices. Consider multi-menu branching to enhance your DVD author pro look - and allow the user choice on what they want to see.
Below is a sample must read assignment for you

5) Read this thread for some perspective
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=862108&Replies=6
musicvid10 wrote on 6/28/2013, 8:14 PM
Sounds like your hard drive ran out of space or something got too warm, frankly.
Also, VMS 9 is kind of old.
cmega wrote on 7/2/2013, 5:06 PM
Thanks for the tips. I've been using DVDA/Vegas pro for 7 years. I know how to create a DVD.

I was merely branching out into hi-def mp4 land, trying to save myself 2 renders in vegas (lo-def mpg and hi-def mp4).

I choose not to render short 10-18 minute clips because my video is continuous stream in which I want no breaks. Rendering shorter clips messes up the markers. NEXT" markers work great, but "PREV" markers don't when you try to navigate from clip "B" back to prior clip "A". If you do a solid long mpg file with markers, there are no issues with next/prev. If you do small renders you lose "prev" capabilities. Without PREV capabilities you have to navigate back to the main menu and come in again from the top.

Example: I videotape school board meetings - a potentially 2 hour, non-breaking video shoot. I take a 2 hour .m2ts file and sharpen, color-correct, adjust volumes, etc. I drop in markers every 5 minutes or so. I want viewers to be able to "NEXT/PREV" their way through the video. There are no convenient "scenes".

If I render this in short segments, I end up with a multiple segment movie. Again I can drop in markers in Vegas into each segment to help "NEXT" navigation, but piecing together these small clips in DVDA I have no way to use "PREV" between movie segments. Plus it's a time suck to specify "END ACTION" after every movie clip to tell it to advance to the "next clip" just to keep the movie going. And there is no way to insert a marker at the beginning of movie segments.

The main menu is simply a "PLAY" button. If I had to add multi-menu, that is nonsense for this purpose - Menu A -> then navigate to first 5 minutes of the meeting, then navigate to the next 15 minutes of the meeting, etc... a sub-menu is ridiculous in this case. Sub-menus do not solve the "PREV" problem.

I shoot other events like this - long, non-breaking footage with no logical breakpoints. There is every advantage to want to next/prev as far forward, or as far backward as desired while watching the DVD. There is little advantage (and a lot of extra work) to create extra menus that jump to arbitrary points in the movie. As a viewer you are now dumped into the "middle" of something without any context. You can't easily "back up" to earlier footage without going back to the menu first.

I don't understand the "must read" assignment link you provided... Maybe I'm not understanding the connection of my NEXT/PREV and large mp4 issues to the Dual-Layer / title set issues / ECC blocking issues, in the article?

Maybe we're talking about two separate things here... but I'm gleaning there is no good way to do what I want, which is fine. I was looking for a time-saver, but it appears there is none. Separate short renders for mp4 and single longer renders for mpg are what will happen.

Markers and navigation will suffer in mp4 land I guess. Instead of a client watching a single HD MP4 "movie" they will be launching several separate mp4 movie snippets. I admittedly am clueless on how the end-user would stitch together multiple mp4's into a seamless larger movie. These won't be streaming. They will be downloaded and need to be small anyway - I don't have the bandwidth to upload multi-GB files. Even short segments will be hundreds of Megs.

I realize V9 is old. But for my purposes V12 offers nothing new that V9 can't handle except a couple new render formats. The big thing for me - it is really slow compared to V9.