DVDA Studio - progressive possible?

kawika wrote on 1/31/2014, 4:28 PM
I bought DVDA Studio a while back but have been busy with other projects and just got around to trying to use it.

Objective: add chapters to a 25-minute mp4 video (30p).

Problem/question: when I attempt to create a new project in DVDA Studio, the only options I see are all 60i (NTSC) and 50i (PAL). No 60p, 30p, 24p.

One thing I'm very clear on is that I do not want interlaced.

If progressive is not possible with DVDA Studio, I will stop wasting time trying to use it. If it is possible, I will greatly appreciate tips on how to access this option.

Comments

videoITguy wrote on 1/31/2014, 5:22 PM
I don't know why you worry about this??. All DVD player hardware is made to a set a standard to display the picture to the format of the DISPLAY device. You cannot override this fact.
kawika wrote on 1/31/2014, 5:48 PM
I "worry" about this because it gives very poor results in many cases. But rather than analyze my motives, I would like a straightforward answer to my very simple question.

Here are some relevant comments from Wikipedia:
"Interlaced video frames will exhibit motion artifacts known as "interlacing effects", or "combing", if the recorded objects are moving fast enough to be in different positions when each individual field is captured. These artifacts may be more visible when interlaced video is displayed at a slower speed than it was captured or when still frames are presented."
[This gets very ugly in slow motion.]

" Interline twitter[edit]Interlace introduces a potential problem called interline twitter. This aliasing effect only shows up under certain circumstances, when the subject being shot contains vertical detail that approaches the horizontal resolution of the video format. For instance, a person on television wearing a shirt with fine dark and light stripes may appear on a video monitor as if the stripes on the shirt are "twittering". Television professionals are taught to avoid wearing clothing with fine striped patterns to avoid this problem. Professional video cameras or Computer Generated Imagery systems apply a low-pass filter to the vertical resolution of the signal in order to prevent possible problems with interline twitter.}

Interline twitter is the primary reason that interlacing is unacceptable for a computer display. Each scanline on a high-resolution computer monitor is typically used to display discrete pixels that do not span the scanlines above or below. When the overall interlaced framerate is 30 frames per second, a pixel that spans only one scanline is visible for 1/30 of a second followed by 1/30 of a second of darkness, reducing the per-line/per-pixel framerate to 15 frames per second.

To avoid this problem, sharp detail is typically never displayed on standard interlaced television set. When computer graphics are shown on a standard television set, the screen is treated as if it were half the resolution of what it actually is or even lower. If text is displayed, it will be large enough so that horizontal lines are never just one scanline wide. Most fonts used in television programming have wide, fat strokes, and do not include fine-detail serifs that would make the twittering more visible."

My own experience bears this out. I prefer good results to inferior results. I would post a screenshot but can't see any way to do so. But again, I'm not the issue, my question is the issue. It has, I'm sure, a simple yes/no answer.

videoITguy wrote on 1/31/2014, 6:03 PM
The answer - You can make a DVD from a progressive source - Hollywood does it everyday - the answer is that on the DVD file structure it exists as interlaced and appropriately displays the video to a progressive or interlaced monitor.
Quit worrying!
Better encoders do a better job than poor quality encoders.
kawika wrote on 1/31/2014, 6:24 PM
My question remains unanswered.

With DVDA Studio, when I attempt to create a new project in DVDA Studio, the only options I see are all 60i (NTSC) and 50i (PAL). No 60p, 30p, 24p. (Also no frame rates other than 60 or 50.)

If there is a way to set up a project *in DVDA Studio* in 60p, 30p, or 24p, using mp4 30p as input, I would appreciate knowing how this is done. PE allows this. WinX DVD allows this, other programs allow this. Does DVDA Studio allow this? If so, how?

musicvid10 wrote on 1/31/2014, 7:50 PM
Uhmm, the official DVD specification for MPEG-2 does not support 30p, 24p, or 60p.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Video_data
So why do you think Architect projects should support illegal formats?
Here's the nonfantasy version:
30p ->60i (29.97 NTSC)
60p ->60i (29.97 NTSC)
24p -> 60i (29.97 NTSC) with pulldown
TheHappyFriar wrote on 1/31/2014, 9:59 PM
Q: Can DVDA export a DVD that reads as progressive?
A: No.

Q: Can your put progressive media in to DVDA and then when you view it on a computer have it be full 480 lines vs 240 with field removal?
A: Yes.

If everything in your project is progressive then if you render interlaced it just changed a flag in the rendered file. Tell the computer DVD software to not deinterlace and you'll have full 480p video displayed. I've done it before, it works. Might not work well on an interlaced playerback device though.
Arthur.S wrote on 2/1/2014, 8:40 AM
Well, you can certainly put a progressive MPEG-2 file into DVDA and as long as it's DVD compatible, DVDA won't re-encode it. I do this with every single DVD project that I produce. Of course, what the chosen playback device does is a different story.
kawika wrote on 2/2/2014, 12:03 PM
Thanks to all for the information, but for some reason the original issue and question remain unanswered.

When I attempt to create a new project in DVDA Studio, the only options I see are all *60i (NTSC) and 50i (PAL)*. I do not see any other frame rates. I am not talking about output, I am talking about input. Every other program I have used starts with input settings. If I input 30p, I set the project parameters up for 30p.

I am starting with 30p. Why on earth would I want to set up the project for 60i? I intend to output 30fps. Why would I want to set up the project for 60fps?

If there is a way to set up a project *in DVDA Studio* in other than 60i or 50i, using mp4 30p as input, I would appreciate knowing how this is done. PE allows this. WinX DVD allows this, other programs allow this. Does DVDA Studio allow this? If so, how?

I do not believe there is anything "illegal" about this. Other programs seem to have no issues with it.


Arthur.S wrote on 2/2/2014, 1:06 PM
You asked specifically about DVDA. The answers are above, but you're ignoring them. If you can do what you want in other programmes, why aren't you using those other programmes instead? When you drop your 30p file into DVDA, look at File/optimization. Does it show a tick, or an exclamation mark against your file?
kawika wrote on 2/2/2014, 4:46 PM


Again, my question, simplified to the max: "Is there a way to set up a project *in DVDA Studio* in other than 60i or 50i, using mp4 30p as input?"

re: "The answers are above, but you're ignoring them."
Surely if the answer(s) are there, I hope you will have the decency to briefly quote one or more specific sentences or phrases that actually answer my question. I'm not ignoring them, they don't appear to exist.

Again, my very basic question is about project pre-sets, which appear to be limited to 50i or 60i. Neither of which corresponds to anything that I intend to input nor output.

videoITguy wrote on 2/2/2014, 4:57 PM
NO , for the last time, we already told you that what you are attempting to do IS NOT - the way you do it. Good luck with your project idea.
kawika wrote on 2/2/2014, 8:24 PM
First off, thanks to the Happy Friar for contributing a helpful answer. And there may have been one or two others hidden amongst the other verbiage.

And to answer the question posed about warning messages, I got one that said the MP4 file was “orphaned and unreachable.” Although it showed up in the project window, but was blacked out in the preview window.

Regarding the answers that I am alleged to have ignored:

“I don't know why you worry about this??. All DVD player hardware is made to a set a standard to display the picture to the format of the DISPLAY device.”
Right. But has nothing to do with project pre-sets, nor with my objective of inputting MP4 30p..

“Quit worrying!
“Better encoders do a better job than poor quality encoders.”
Right. But not a solution nor an answer.

“the official DVD specification for MPEG-2 does not support 30p, 24p, or 60p.”
Right. But I’m trying to input MP4, not MP2.

“Why do you think Architect projects should support illegal formats?”
Not sure what is “illegal” about wanting to input mp4 30p,
…and when I attempt to explain that what I’m trying to do (input MP4 30p and set project presets accordingly, as one does in at least some other programs), I get this:
“If you can do what you want in other programmes, why aren't you using those other programmes instead?”
Back to my motives again. Not much of a solution, though.

At the risk of triggering another question of my motives (why I’m not using another program), some programs such as PE start with input parameters (“pre-sets”) that have a major effect on how the files one loads will be treated. Failure to set them up accurately can result in horrible results. For example, working with 30p files in an interlace pre-set will result in terrible artifacts which can’t be removed.

“you can certainly put a progressive MPEG-2 file into DVDA”
Right. But I’m trying to put in MP4, not MP2.

re: "The answers are above, but you're ignoring them."
Right. But my request to please point them out was in vain.

“what you are attempting to do IS NOT - the way you do it”
Right. But not much here by way of a solution, is there?

Bottom line: I opened this thread in the clearly naïve assumption that the purpose of the forums was to provide help and guidance to those seeking it. This has been interesting in a certain way, but it seems to be more of an initiation or “teach the newbie to stay in his place” or a sort of Lord of the Flies process of establishing a pecking order. Truly a shame; online forums can be quite hospitable and productive arenas. But it all depends on the product and the user base.

I’ll leave the thread here in the hope that someone will come along who is interested in sharing knowledge.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/2/2014, 8:46 PM
Render your mp4 from Vegas to a mpeg-2 and that's all that needs to be done. Ignore what DVDA says for it's settings as it has no bearing on the actual media on the disc. It says 60i, the file can be 30p and it will display it 60i on a set top player because the player will decode it at that. If you're doing 60p then you might have a problem as DVD set top players go either 30fps or 25fps, so it might be slower then you're expecting. Some TV's can override what the DVD player sends depending on the connection and some players can override, but in general the only way you'll get real progressive off a DVD is on a computer.

Under every circumstance, the Vegas encoder does it faster and has more options. The only time I've let DVDA do the encoding is when I made my DVD audio and rendered at the wrong bitrate, that goes pretty quick in DVDA.
Arthur.S wrote on 2/3/2014, 5:24 AM
"If there is a way to set up a project *in DVDA Studio* in 60p, 30p, or 24p, using mp4 30p as input". Short answer is no.

The bottom line (which has been repeated many times in various forms) is that MP4 is NOT a DVD spec. You can drop an MP4 into DVDA, but it's going to get converted into a DVD compliant file. If you want MP4 it's got to be Blu-ray. Good luck with your project.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/3/2014, 6:25 AM
Mp4 on BD? Hm.... then the Pro version could put an mp4 on DVD as a BD-DVD.
videoITguy wrote on 2/3/2014, 6:59 AM
Arthur and Happy Friar - what you mean is actually creating an AVCHD disk, which as we all know is getting into muddy waters with compatibility to player type. let's not go there with the OP.