dvsd Codec questions

seeker wrote on 3/6/2003, 3:16 PM
Hi all,

I have been capturing DV clips using Sonic Foundry's Video Capture application and using them in Vegas Video 3 and they work fine in that scenario. However, I am now having trouble opening those AVIs in other programs, Corel Painter 7 for example. Some applications seem to be able to use them and others can't. The problem seems to hinge on the "dvsd" codec that they use.

If I double-click on one of the dvsd AVIs, it will promptly open in Windows Media Player 9 and play with no problem. Yet if in Windows Explorer I right-click on one of the AVIs and select Properties, clicking on the Details tab shows the Video format as an "Unknown Format" and under the Preview tab no preview appears and an error dialog states "Video not available, cannot find vids:dvsd". A similar error message appears in Corel Painter 7.

I was under the impression that Sonic Foundry had developed their own proprietary DV codec that is much better than Microsoft's. Is Sonic Foundry using the same FOURCC (four character code) for their codec as Sony is using for theirs? Has Sonic Foundry registered their codec with Microsoft? Is Main Concept's DV Codec 2.1 the same one that Vegas 3 or 4 uses? Are AVI files that use Sonic Foundry's proprietary DV codec unusable by other applications in general? Apparently Corel Painter can't open them. And Windows 98SE Explorer can't either. How is it that Windows Media Player 9 can?

-- Seeker --

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 3/8/2003, 1:52 AM
Any player that uses the VFW/MCI interface won't play DV. Media Player 6.4 and up and up should play DV fine. I doubt Corel 7 is new enough.
Paradox wrote on 3/8/2003, 8:30 AM
http://www.baobab.net/dvconvinfo.html
JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/8/2003, 10:40 AM
Seeker,

Unfortunately Sonic Foundry doesn’t register it’s DV codec with Windows so unless you have another one, you can’t use your AVI files with other applications. There is supposed to be a freely available Microsoft DV codec but I unfortunately had Pinnacle Studio mess up my system by installing all its own “brain-dead” codecs (I say brain-dead because render is disabled, they only play-back). So I installed the Panasonic DV codec that came with my camcorder and that’s what I’m using. It allows me to render to DV from other applications as well as play back DV.

The message you’re getting “Video not available, cannot find vids:dvsd" means that there is no codec associated with the FourCC dvsd (because Sonic Founsry doesn’t register theirs). You’ll need to get a DV codec to make this work.

~jr
SonyEPM wrote on 3/10/2003, 10:30 AM
If you install DirectX8 or later (required when installing Vegas) then you'll have the Microsoft codec on your system, and so you should be able to open Vegas- generated DV .avi files in other apps (Premiere, WMP etc) no problem. The MS DV codec isn't perfect but it is ok- you can also use the Main Concept codec, or the Canopus codec, both of which are very good.

If you have Vegas installed and can't open a DV .avi generated by Vegas in another app, that is almost certainly the fault of the other app.
seeker wrote on 3/10/2003, 7:37 PM
SonicEPM,

Thanks for that explanation. I think I have DirectX9, so I should be OK there. It may very well be the other app (Corel Painter 7), because Windows Media Player, Apple QuickTime Player, and RealOne Player all played the AVIs just fine. Corel Painter 7 could not open them though.

My motivation for opening the AVIs in Corel Painter 7 is that Painter 7 converts an AVI or a MOV into a "Frame Stack" which is analogous to Adobe's FilmStrip format, and lets you rotoscope to your heart's content with an impressive arsenal of artistic painting tools.

I found a satisfying workaround to get AVIs from Vegas to Painter. Namely, in Vegas 3, select a loop and render that loop to an uncompressed AVI. That "killed two birds with one stone" in that I didn't swamp Painter with an overly long AVI, and I got the AVI in past Painter's apparent inability to deal with a FOURCC of "dvsd". An alternative Vegas workaround is to render the loop to a QuickTime MOV file. Painter converts MOVs to Frame Stacks with no problem.

Is the DV codec that MainConcept is selling the same DV codec that is in Vegas 4? It appears that the MainConcept codec product has a later version number.

-- Seeker --
JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/10/2003, 7:53 PM
Seeker,

You did the right thing anyway. If you’re going to process an AVI file with another application, especially for something like rotoscoping, which is guaranteed to force a re-render, you’re much better off using uncompressed format for both transfers. This is what I do when moving small clips in and out of Vegas for other processing. It guarantees that compression doesn’t sacrifice quality.

~jr
musicvid10 wrote on 3/10/2003, 11:10 PM
Seeker,
Try rendering to huffyuv Type I. They should open in Corel.
SonyEPM wrote on 3/11/2003, 8:34 AM
"Is the DV codec that MainConcept is selling the same DV codec that is in Vegas 4?"

No. SF licenses the Main Concept MPEG encoder, but the DV codec in Vegas was developed by SF engineers in house.
seeker wrote on 3/11/2003, 5:05 PM
SonicEPM,

Thank you for that information.

-- Seeker --