DVX100 & 24p Widescreen

streckfus wrote on 5/23/2004, 3:54 AM

I'll be shooting an independent film with the Panasonic DVX100. I've referenced Sony's PDF in regards to editing & rendering 24p video in Vegas with this camera, but I'm confused about the whole 16:9 anamorphic widescreen situation.

The PDF file states I can edit/render in 24p Widescreen, but only if I have an anamorphic adapter for the DVX100.

This whole anamorphic thing has always confused me....do I really need an $850 camera accessory in order to shoot and subsequently edit & render my "film" in 16:9? If so, what's really happening when I shoot in 16:9 mode with the DVX100? Would that footage not be compatible in the Vegas timeline and rendering process?

I'd hate to shoot a feature length film in 16:9 only to realize in post-production that my footage is going to look messed up because (a) I didn't use an anamorphic lens adapter when I shot it or (b) I didn't understand how to correctly configure Vegas/DVD-A to work with my 24p 16:9 footage.

Any assistance with this matter would be greatly appreciated.

CM

Comments

RexA wrote on 5/23/2004, 4:34 AM

Depends on the quality of image you want. With the basic camera if you shoot in the advanced 24p mode you will get a non-interlaced 4:3 image. If you want 16:9 you will have to mask off the top and bottom in your monitor as you shoot to the 16:9 aspect and then crop in Vegas(or just crop selectivly if you didn't plan this framing).

If you do it that way you are throwing away pixels at the top and bottom of the 4:3 image you shot. If you shoot with the anamorphic lens you get the maximum resolution. The lens is essentially wide-angle, but only in the horizontal direction. When you shoot with it the images in the viewfinder will be squished horizontally. Things will look tall and narrow. The lens is looking at a 16:9 field of view but compressing it to the 4:3 CCDs that are recording.

When you then set things properly in Vegas you will expand the image only horizontally and preserve all of the CCD's vertical resolution.

Anamorphic is actually the way DVDs are recorded. The image on the widescreen DVD is really 4:3 but is expanded in the player or TV in the horizontal direction to get the 16:9 aspect.

If you want to use the anamorphic lens and see the actual image as you record, you will need an external 16:9 monitor that can be set to do the horizontal stretching.

I hope that was clear. It's really not that complicated if you just understand that the anamorphic lens is wide angle, but only in the horizontal direction. Within optical limits, it should modify the image evenly horizontally and not change anything vertically.

farss wrote on 5/23/2004, 4:48 AM

There's no compatibility issue shooting 16:9 with any NLE. The video is exactly the same. The only issue you may strike is whether or not the NLE can disply the frame in the correct AR, an inconvenience but not a total show stopper. You will not have this problem with Vegas or most other advanced NLEs either. Even if you don't shoot 16:9 as has been said above you can always letterbox it to 16:9 but you do throw away resolution.
This is the advantage of using the anamorphic lens, it optically squeezes the image so you get to keep all the resolution of the camera.
If you have the "A" version of the camera it has an electronic squeeze mode which normally doesn't do anything different than letterboxing in post. The one exception is if you are shooting in progressive. In progressive scan no line averaging takes place so you get improved vertical res, in fact about the same as you loose by using squeeze mode. Of course it'd be nice to be able to keep that gain by not having to use squeeze by fiting the adaptor.
Best place for the lowdown is www.dvxuser.com, they're pretty Vegas friendly as well.

donp wrote on 5/23/2004, 9:54 AM

This may be the person that I sent here from the DVXuser form because I didn't see at the time any really good answers for him there for the moment. You all however really took care of his question.

streckfus wrote on 5/23/2004, 12:43 PM

Thanks for the quick replies.

I guess what confuses me is that if I shoot in 24p Advanced mode with the DVX100A and use the camera's 16:9 mode, the image in the viewfinder is cropped, that way I'm seeing the widescreen composition. I don't plan on shooting in 4:3 and then later cropping in Vegas.

If I shoot in 16:9 mode with the camera then load it up in Vegas with the 24p Widescreen setting, do my editing, then render it as MPEG-2 with the DVD-A 24p Widescreen template, won't that essentially create the 16:9 image I'm looking for?

I guess what I'm looking for is whether or not I'll have to purchase the lens adapter and 16:9 monitor in order to truly create a widescreen image, or if I can just use the camera's 16:9 recording mode.

donp wrote on 5/23/2004, 7:51 PM

The lowest price I have found the Panasonic Anamorphic Adapter for the AG DVX100a is 749 at www.Biz-Max.net. I have also heard of a true 16.9 eye piece for DVx100a but it's was said to be rather pricey, don't remeber the figure though. That was a tidbit from the DVX User forum

BarryGreen wrote on 5/24/2004, 7:42 AM

If you use the in-camera squeeze mode, yes you will be making a widescreen image.

When that whitepaper was written, the DVX100 did not have an in-camera squeeze mode. Squeeze mode was introduced in the 100A. So for the 100, the anamorphic adapter was the only way to get in-camera 16:9 footage.

The adapter will provide higher-resolution 16:9, but squeeze mode will certainly do the job. Try it and see if you like the quality, before shelling out for the anamorphic adapter.

filmy wrote on 5/24/2004, 10:43 AM

It is really about the quality of it. If you want 'true' 16:9 than you have to get the adapter - and I mean use the adapter, not that you *have* to buy it. If you are shooting a feature and don't want to purchase the adapter I would say try and find a local rental house so you can rent one.

I made some pre-NAB posts and mentioned there was going to be a 16:9 eyepiece shown. You would have to do a search for the exact info - but it slips over the DVX's eyepiece and will unsqueeze the anamorphic image.

Bottom line is that is you want the full resolution use the adapter. If you aren't that concerned use the squeeze mode or just shot 4:3 and than use the 16:9 pan/crop in Vegas.

streckfus wrote on 5/24/2004, 12:45 PM

Thanks for all the help. After reading all of your posts, the stuff makes a lot more sense.

I think I'm just going to use the in-camera 16:9 mode, run a few tests and see how that works out. If I'm not pleased with the quality, then I'll get or rent the adapter.

Thanks again for all the help. This is a great forum!

RexA wrote on 5/24/2004, 7:58 PM

> I made some pre-NAB posts and mentioned there was going to be a 16:9 eyepiece shown. You would have to do a search for the exact info - but it slips over the DVX's eyepiece and will unsqueeze the anamorphic image.

I think I remember that post. Pretty sure it was from Century Optics. I thought I heard in some forum post that it didn't show up at NAB though.

BarryGreen wrote on 5/25/2004, 12:40 PM

Eyepiece de-anamorphosizer:

http://www.adorama.com/CYVSWSEPDVX.html