Editing two different fps in one project

pavel-soucek wrote on 9/2/2015, 3:24 AM
Hi there, it has been probably solved in past, but i can't see it. So if i am right, please just send me a link with certain answer.

I have two type of video files:
30 fps, 1280x720x24 (Panasonic DMC-FS30)
25 fps progressive, 1920x1080x12 (ActionPro X7)

Another issue has appeared while editing. I start with uploading files into Project Media library. First 25fps, then 30fps. And i also start with adding tags to files.

But suddenly it has blocked my 30fps files, and it changed something in source files, that i can't play them even out of Sony Vegas. Fortunately i have saved files into different folder before.

So any advice, thank you so much!

Comments

Warper wrote on 9/2/2015, 5:47 AM
1) Generally you speed up, slow down, apply resample or drop frames for every clip that has fps not equal to output.
Also you resize clips not in output format frame size.
What is your output format?

2) It's possible Vegas put regions information into source files and it made them unreadable. Take a look at general preferences Tab, turn off "Automatically save Trimmer markers and regions with media file". Hope it helps.
dxdy wrote on 9/2/2015, 8:29 AM
This is pretty scary. I have always believed that Vegas never alters a source file. Am I wrong?
pavel-soucek wrote on 9/2/2015, 10:41 AM
1) I don't understand, i mean i don't know how change of speed could make the same fps. I expect advice to convert 30fps to 25fps and recommend certain software...

My output has to be 25fps PAL 1920x1080, 16:9, if possible.

2)I will have a look at it.
Warper wrote on 9/3/2015, 5:04 AM
PavelFish
i mean i don't know how change of speed could make the same fps.
It changes fps of source. Mainly this technique is used for 24fps(film)->25fps(PAL DVD). This 4% speed increase is not generally noticable if you change sound in sync.
For your case 30fps->25fps slow down can be noticable, but who knows, I think it worth a try. Ctrl+drag of right side of video event changes event size and playback speed. Increase it by 20% and you can hit frame-by-frame speed increase.

Frame drops is a valid method, to do it just select disable resample in 30 fps video clip and render as 25 fps. If you see jitter (some people do if you have continous straight movement with set speed in video), it's not the option.

Twixtor plug-in can do frame rate conversions. It's not 100% bullet-proof, but it's that advanced method you asked for. Twixtor is also available as stand alone application.

You can try avisynth filters to change fps, but avisynth is a bit complicated as it is. Google mvflowfps if you are interested.
pavel-soucek wrote on 9/4/2015, 8:21 AM
Warper, Thank you for your opinion. When it comes to speeding up and down using Ctrl+Draging right side of event back and forward i think it is not such good way how to do that. Minimaly it is impossible to drag it in limits of certain %, like you are writing. You know I have almost 50-60 video files of 30fps and it is just too long and precise work. I bet there is easier way. Isn't?

I have heard somewhere that Sony Vegas has no problem with puting video files/events into timeline with different fps and edit them together, and then render all as one certain output.

Is it true?

And how it happend (or why)? That my source files become unreadable after tag inserting in Project Media liberary. Noone of them was put into timeline. Is that because of setting project properties and could it be fixed?

Btw. sometimes SV is also not able to work with some type of files even they have to be supported. (like AVI from Kyocera camera, some mp4 files - just sound appeard)... Interesting is that these files were not broken in any way and I could play them easily outside of Sony Vegas.
Warper wrote on 9/8/2015, 5:09 AM
Is it true?
Well, it will work, yet result is not perfect. If you don't really need perfect frame accurate fps change, simply try it out and see for youself.

When it comes to speeding up and down using Ctrl+Draging right side of event back and forward i think it is not such good way how to do that. Minimaly it is impossible to drag it in limits of certain %, like you are writing. You know I have almost 50-60 video files of 30fps and it is just too long and precise work. I bet there is easier way. Isn't?
Basically you need 2 things: change playback speed and keep entire video clip on timeline.
If you use "presize ctrl+draggins" make a math and drag to the point you need. Not so easy, yes.
If you only change playback speed, Vegas will not update event size, thus hiding end of your video. You can fix it with simple drag of right side up to a teeth. It might be easier.
It's possible to write a script that makes both things, but writing (and testing) such a script will take 2+ hours.

And how it happend (or why)? That my source files become unreadable after tag inserting in Project Media liberary.
I believe Vegas writes tags into source files too. Have you tried to change the option?
Well, after all, it might be easier to batch render files in Vegas into editing format like XAVC. Then you will tag, edit or do whatever you want - as they are natural Vegas format, there should be no troubles with unreadable sources.

sometimes SV is also not able to work with some type of files even they have to be supported
Avi and mp4 are just containers. Not every video codec you can squeeze inside then is readable in Vegas. Sometimes you need to install vfw-codec (64-bit version for 64-bit Vegas), sometimes you have to have quicktime of appropriate version, sometimes it simply doesn't work. But every time you have such a source, there is an option to reencode it in external tools into something more Vegas-friendly.