Event FX

freendeed wrote on 2/12/2003, 4:38 AM
I've just realized that if you try to use Event FX on more than a few tracks you can't preview the project due to skips (and my machine is over 1Ghz). I realized this by deleting each track's effects one at a time until I got down to enough (about 5 events in my case)that the project would play. This is ridiculous! Why in the world is it using up processor cycles for plugins that aren't even being "played" at that time? Even bypassing them won't work. You actually have to delete them! Who in the world can do a project like this?

Comments

jorgensen wrote on 2/12/2003, 6:13 AM
jep - a big problem if you use Ozone and similar CPU hungry FXs.

Sonic has to fix this in the next release so out-of-track FX events are bypassed.

Until then we have to use less CPU hungry FXs, where most just takes up a few percent on CPU load.

If you want to use eg Ozone on several tracks, you have to use an external program for the track FXs, but that is a real paint to do.

To Sonic:
Also, please add a CPU load indication/meters to the Sonic programs - now we have to use another program to check the processor load for FXs.
RikTheRik wrote on 2/12/2003, 10:31 AM
I already sent an email about this issue to Sonic Foundry support (in december).
Hope to see a fix in the next update of cd architect !!!

Erik.
freendeed wrote on 2/12/2003, 10:05 PM
By God you hit it right on the head. Ozone is the only plugin I'm using but I'm only using the EQ section (the rest of the modules are disabled). CDA should have never been written to respond like this. I could see if you had two overlapping events (like a cross-fade) that you might need to run two event's FX at once but even then it should just process the parts that overlap. Things like reverb where you might have a tail last longer than an event would be an obvious thing that would need to be programmed for but it's not like this is a real-time multitrack app where that would be neccesary.
freendeed wrote on 2/14/2003, 12:24 AM
I hope by update you mean the next point release (as in CDA 5.0a, etc.). This flaw alone makes CDA worthless as a mastering app. Just what does Sonic Foundry consider their mastering app then? I was told by them that Soundforge wasn't a mastering app but a wave editor. Now it seems that the CDA that was supposed to be a mastering app isn't one either but is basically just a CD burner. Does Sonic Foundry make a mastering app? I will be pissed off if they expect me to pay (as in an upgrade to CDA 6) to get the mastering app that was advertised as CDA5.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 2/15/2003, 7:05 PM
Ozone is the only plugin I have had stuttering playback with, on a 1G1 Celeron.

Waves, PSP and others on *all* tracks play back just fine for me. Perhaps the way CDA5 preloads plugs (if that is actually the case) could be addressed, and/or perhaps Ozone could be tuned to be less hungry, in the same way that Waves plugs have been...

geoff
jorgensen wrote on 2/16/2003, 3:46 AM
Something similar is going on in the Vegas Audio forum.
The new version 4 does not support dual processor which the prior version did, so lots of people now have troubles with their big projects. You may check "What the F*&%$ Happened to Dual Processor Support??"

It looks like SF has overseen the possibility that users will add lots of FXs now the possiblity is there.

When I first put my hand on CDA 5, I believed, I should use one global FX chain, and then have the possiblity to override the settings per track. This could be an alternativ solution - and I like the idea.

I use Ozone as master FX and Waves noise restoration on some tracks to improve the sound on some of my old favorite albums, and at a point CDA becomes so slow responding that I have to restart the project.
kylen wrote on 3/10/2003, 5:36 PM
I had attempted to master a 13 song CD that required some unique dynamics and EQ manipulation on every track so I used individual event FX. I believe individual song adjustments to be essential for certain types of mastering projects, thus the feature 'event FX'.

On my P4 1.3GHz I couldn't make it past song 8 or 9 (using PSP VW and SF track param EQ on each track). When I put Ozone across the master well it was all over and stuttering and system slow-down prevented any more mastering.

This caused me to have to change my entire mastering approach. Now I pre-master each song individually using either SF6 or Cool Edit Pro and include unique dynamics and EQ manipulation in my post-production activities where I used to only cleanup songs. Come to think of it I used to use Virtos demoiser and declick on certain tracks in CDA and that ended real fast because of processing overhead and the inability to switch out effects.

I would pre-master or master an individual song anyway from time to time as I release them individually sometimes. But when the intent is to release a group of songs together on a CD they all have to be brought together sonic-wise so the entire thing flows from song to song. I find that on the songs I assemble for CD there are variances that require more EQ and dynamics touchup on each song (event FX) as well as overall loudness adjustment for the project (using Ozone or something).

Having to smooth or otherwise adjust individual EQ and dynamics of each song in an external audio editor is a capability I already manually had and one I had assumed CDA5 would handle. I realize that all the event FX couldn't run at the same time but the ability to switch each event FX completely off (processing wise) would solve my problem I think.

I'm chiming in to this thread a little late but wanted to add to what you folks have already said in case Sonic Foundry prioritizes enhancements by the number of customer requests like this one.
freendeed wrote on 3/21/2003, 4:55 AM
Yes, that's the whole point of mastering: making the pieces fit into a whole. To do that you have to be able to audition each track side-by-side with the others and make individual EQ/Compression/etc. changes to each track. A master plugin won't work unless there's a way to automate the parameters. I asked if it was possible for a DX plugin to bring up a preset automatically (much the way you bring up a patch on a MIDI synth). That would be pretty cool. Then you could use one master plugin and have it bring up the correct preset for each song (assuming you want to use the same plugin on all songs). But this would cause a problem where you have two songs crossfaded and one song needs a different preset than another. Hopefully SF will get this fixed. FWIW, per object (per track) effects work correctly in Samplitude so it's a problem with CD Architect.
jorgensen wrote on 3/22/2003, 4:32 AM
Automation is not the way to go, because less than half of FX support this, but individual preset for each event can be used on all FX.

Overlapping events in CDA is not that often to be used, and for final rendering there is no problem, but for exact prelisten it could be solved by:

1. Two Audio layers can be used with two sets of FX chain.

2. Selected rendering similar to video rendering in Vegas.

Selected rendering would be great as it can release much of the CPU load during normal operation.


dumbo wrote on 6/2/2003, 11:16 AM
sAME PROB AS ABOVE.....sf, PLEASE FIX THIS! What a PITA !!!!
KennyLee wrote on 9/25/2003, 10:48 AM
I just want to add my voice to this topic. I have been using CD Architect for several weeks now and think it is an outstanding product - with the singular exception of this problem. I can't understand why adding an effect to, say, Track 25 should affect the preview/playback performance of Track 2. Why is there a global performance degradation when processing individual tracks?

Solve this problem and you will make this product much more viable for the professional use it was intended.

Thanks for listening.
Jrel wrote on 9/28/2003, 12:01 PM
I agree. Please fix this problem.
RikTheRik wrote on 10/3/2003, 12:28 PM
I look forward to hear some news about CDA from Sony media software...
The event fx issue seems to be a big deal though...
I heard that only Samplitude is implementing that properly.