Fall Challenge (Interlaced to Streaming Services)

john_dennis wrote on 10/25/2014, 1:06 PM
In an earlier thread there was mention of uploading interlaced video to streaming services. Since I had never done it, I thought I would give it a try and let them worry about the deinterlacing.

Here is a comparison video where the deinterlacing was done at home in Vegas Pro 12 with Deinterlace Method set to Interpolate.



Vimeo Mainconcept AVC/MVC Internet - 30p

Since youtube wouldn't accept AVCHD, I created a custom template for the interlaced version from the Mainconcept MPEG-2 render templates using ATSC as the Output Type. youtube took the file but balked briefly with their processing.



Vimeo Mainconcept 1920x1080-60i custom template

Because I'm not a Vimeo Plus or Pro member this video is not HD, at least until next week.

Decide for yourself whether it matters. Then, go pick a pumpkin.

Comments

farss wrote on 10/25/2014, 1:52 PM
I have no idea why anyone would recommend uploading interlaced video to a streaming service such as YouTube that doesn't support it and last time I checked recommends you don't do it.

The majority of footage that's uploaded to YT is being shot on cameras that aren't even capable of shooting interlaced so I wouldn't hold out much hope that YT is going to devote much effort to the de-interlacing problem. The only time I even shoot interlaced these days is when I know the client will want SD DVDs and that's getting rare. With the YADIF de-interlacing plugin available for V10 and later there's even less reason to deliver interlaced video to a streaming service.

From what I work out, at best YT and Vimeo will have a reasonable go at de-interlacing but we'd get better results putting some effort into the task using Vegas with the YADIF plug.

Bob.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/25/2014, 1:54 PM
I deinterlace in Handbrake, then upload to YT.

johnmeyer wrote on 10/25/2014, 11:44 PM
I have no idea why anyone would recommend uploading interlaced video to a streaming service such as YouTube that doesn't support it and last time I checked recommends you don't do it.Bob,

I don't disagree with anything you say, but as I already said in the comment in the other thread, I recommend that most users upload their interlaced video to YouTube without deinterlacing, because it has been proven on dozens of occasions, just in this forum alone, that people don't know what they are doing when they deinterlace, and can create some horrible results, such as when they resize from interlaced 1920x1080 to 1280x720 (a good streaming resolution) and then set deinterlace method to none because the name of the setting is confusion to someone not familiar with interlacing. They then end up with a royal mess.

Even when they do it correctly, it seems that sometimes the result is worse when done in Vegas than if they simply uploaded the video with interlacing intact, although I haven't yet studied the video posted in this thread.

As to what percentage of videos uploaded to YouTube in the past week are interlaced, I have absolutely no clue at all. It would be very interesting information to have.
farss wrote on 10/26/2014, 3:43 PM
[I]I don't disagree with anything you say, but as I already said in the comment in the other thread, I recommend that most users upload their interlaced video to YouTube without deinterlacing, because it has been proven on dozens of occasions, just in this forum alone, that people don't know what they are doing when they deinterlace, and can create some horrible results, such as when they resize from interlaced 1920x1080 to 1280x720 (a good streaming resolution) and then set deinterlace method to none because the name of the setting is confusion to someone not familiar with interlacing. They then end up with a royal mess.[/I]
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Going from 1920x1080 to 1280x720 interlaced, the Deinterlace Method still needs to be anything but None. That's not intuitive at all and the cause of many posts here as well. The same applies when going from 1080i to 480i for DVD.

The only time a user doesn't need to be aware of the importance of setting the Deinterlace Method is with an entirely progressive workflow or when not scaling interlaced. Sorry but I think it's perilous to suggest to users that this setting can be ignored for the sake of simplicity. One way or another they're going to get bitten.

The only way problems could be avoided is if the user had shot 1080i and then rendered 1080i and uploaded that to a streaming service. Problem then is they'll need to be encoding with a high bitrate or the result will not be pretty either.

The other issue I have with this is that "recommended" is seen by many people as "best practice".

Bob.
john_dennis wrote on 10/26/2014, 4:46 PM
Note from Vimeo:

Should I deinterlace before I upload?

It's almost always a good idea. If you're outputting 1080i, deinterlace and resize to 1280×720 before you upload. If your final outcome is a progressive medium (web, HDTVs, Blu-Ray, etc.) you might want to deinterlace before you even start editing.
johnmeyer wrote on 10/26/2014, 5:00 PM
The other issue I have with this is that "recommended" is seen by many people as "best practice".Fair criticism.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/26/2014, 5:59 PM
Just a note -- nearly all 1280x720 is progressive, both acquisition and delivery.
So really the least processed, least crappy streaming is 720p source->720p delivery.

The only exceptions are a few local OTA television outlets, who broadcast in 720i iirc. We have one here.