Many thanks - it works by converting in Clip Browsing software. Appreciated.

We're still not able to import direct into Vegas with the XDCAM Explorer, which surely we should be able to?

Thanks, Henry

I don't think so. The XDCAM Explorer is only for the earlier XDCAM and XDCAM HD optical disc cameras. The solid-state XDCAM EX cameras don't use the XDCAM Explorer, they use the Clip Browser instead.

There's a whitepaper about using the various flavours if XDCAM with Vegas here.

Mark

"We're still not able to import direct into Vegas with the XDCAM Explorer, which surely we should be able to?"

You think so, wouldn't you. Sony camera, Sony software....

Thing is the XDCAM Explorer is for XDCAM HD. XDCAM EX uses a different structure based around mp4 which Vegas doesn't support.

Bob.

Understanding the Expectations of Users:

# Sony Camera + Sony Software - How to get files/clips directly from EX1 directly to Timeline.

# Extract Track automatically + named from CD - Works in V6 and other SONY S/w but not in V7 nor V8.

Anybody see a pattern emerging? Maybe I'm bonkers?

Grazie

"Maybe I'm bonkers?"

Quite the opposite.

Bob.

Slightly OT, but still relevant...
I posted a question re. XDCAM HD422 yesterday - got some helpful answers to work flow.
BUT still can't get the process happening.

XDCAM HD422 shot on XDCAM PDW-700 camera - to optical disk.
To read the disk I have the standalone unit PDW-U1 which connects via USB2.0.
Sony supply a FAM driver(software) so that your computer sees the drive as an Optical disk drive.
I have 2 diff XP SP2 PC's with this loaded and I still can't get the PDZ-1 Proxy Browser software or Vegas XDCAM explorer to recognize the Unit(PDW-U1). Its like XP won't recognize the FAM driver, hence the software can't see the unit.

Has anyone been able to connect to this unit from a PC(not MAC)??

If I'm reading this right you have a pretty fundamental problem, at this level that it's XDCAM 422 is irrelevant.
Can you connect to the camera?
Have you followed the driver installation instructions to the letter?
I don't have a U1 but I've certainly seen them when they first came out, working connected to a laptop running XP.
Have you tried the XDCAM forum at DVInfo?

Oh, hang on!

I've been having a problem just like this with the EX. XP would only see one or none of the card slots. Problem was very simple. Windows had mapped the device to the same drive letter as a network share, oooops.

Try Disk Management in Control Panel. You might find the U1 in there, mapped to a drive letter the same as something else. Easy enough to change the drive letter from Disk Management,

Bob.

Thanks Bob,
I took your advice "....to the letter?"
The problem was(yes its working) -
Camera Hire place gave me only one software disk - application software for browsing the unit. I needed a separate disk/file to install the drivers.
It only works on 32bit XP, and the browsing software only partly works, but lo and behold Vegas works a treat with its XDCAM Explorer window. It is so easy and intuitive.
We are now working with full HD 1920 422 files. On my 3 year old multicore PC I get 20 - 24 fps playback (it was shot at 25p).
Pics look amazing, colour grading works a treat
-very happy vegemite.

Even before the camera came out I somehow managed to create video using the same codec from upscaled digibeta. Plays back very smoothly on my quad off a basic SATA RAID.

As for camera hire place....I work for one and all this software based stuff is a nightmare. Drivers for PCs and Macs, firmware and software in cameras etc. Just the EX1 causes enough grief because if for whatever reason the client cannot offload the cards we have a problem, they need to keep the expensive cards until they can get their problem sorted and without the cards the camera is a brick to us.

Bob.

I don't understand the "problems" people are having with:

1. the EX camera (1 or 3)

2. the Clip Browser

3. offloading the media cards

I am truly sorry that folks are having these issues, but for me it's been a very straight forward operation all the way.

Same thing with Vegas. I read time and time again of all the "problems" people are having with the various versions of Vegas. So far, any problems I've had with Vegas or the EX3 have been "user issues."

Jay? Do a real step-by-step for this. Where do you SEE the clips? Are they shown on a "drive"?

Graize

I wouldn't call them "problems" as such.
Once you get your head around the worlflow and stick to it religiously you shouldn't have any issues although figuring out how to join split clips is a bit confusing.

However compared to the competition Vegas's support for XDCAM EX seems to be the worst. Vegas is now about the only NLE that requires clips to be converted to MXF before they can be used and with the new Clipbrowser 2 that's a painfully slow process, so slow you loose the speed advantage of shooting SxS compared to tape.

I've yet to install CS4 but I read it brings a whole heap of extra goodies to XDCAM EX. The rumour a long while back when Sony first announced the EX format was they changed to mp4 at Adobe's bidding. That's probably now bearing fruit for Sony and Adobe.

Bob.

Actually, perhaps it's because I don't know any better, but I don't find the conversion to MXF to be that much of a hassle. It doesn't take all the much time with the Sony SxS card reader, and reading the SCHD cards if even faster with it's card reader.

What's great about this, in my situation any way, is that it's no different from editing DV. I don't see any difference in the work flow, either. Bring in the files, edit, grade (if necessary), and output to whatever format needed. At first I was very intimidated by everything I read about HD and all the problems some many were having, files issues, intermediate challenges, but that's simply not the case with this set-up. I'm grateful for it!

Be that as it may, I'm really sorry to see that there seems to be a considerable number of folks still having challenges, for whatever reason.

Actually, perhaps it's because I don't know any better, but I don't find the conversion to MXF to be that much of a hassle. It doesn't take all the much time with the Sony SxS card reader, and reading the SCHD cards if even faster with it's card reader.
==========
All the Sony SxS card reader does (AFAIK) is take the place of an express card slot if you don't have one so I doubt that is the problem people are having.

John

Sorry, John, I didn't mean to imply that the card reader(s) were the problem. I was just referring to the simplicity of the process. It does require the files pass through the Clip Broswer to wrap them as MXF files. Again, I have no issue with that either.

From what I've read, if I understood them correctly, you can go directly from the cards into FCP. However, on the flip side of that, an awful lot a people appear to be having other issues with the EX camera files and FCP.

Is Vegas perfect? No. Are the EX cameras perfect? No. But they all work for me, and that's my bottom line. Unfortunately, that's not the case for all users.

I'm with ya Jay. Though I agree it would be nice to be able to skip the clip browser/converting to mxf process all together, the difference between this and the hassle and time of using tape is just far to great to even draw a parallel. I've had my EX1 for a bit and still marvel at just how much time I save and how easy it is compared to the old way of doing things. One hour of tape meant one hour of capture, possibly more if you were previewing and selecting which parts to import or setting in and out points. Takes only minutes to import 50 minutes using the Clip Browser and I don't feel the need to babysit it or make sure that the "capture" went right, it just works!

With all due respect I think that saying that its "so slow you loose the speed advantage of shooting SxS compared to tape." is a bit of a misnomer. I've saved countless hours since moving to the EX1 and dread the thought of ever working with tape again.

- Ray
Some of my stuff on Vimeo
www.undergroundplanet.com

Grazie, to answer your question first, you "see" the clips in the camera. It's like a computer with a lens! You can access any clip you've recorded at any time, it's truly non-linear.

Once the video is recorded I do the following:

1. Remove the card(s) from the camera

2. Insert card into card reader

3. Open Clip Browser

4. Import clips from card to hard drive/folder of choice (no need to monitor as with tape)

5. Open Vegas and import video files the same way I did using video tape

6. Then work my magic

(just kidding about the "magic" part)

Thanks for that Jay.

So do you, have you ever connected the camera TO the PC and used the camera AS the reader? Your "external" card reader, I'm supposing here, is "recognised" as a drive?

Grazie

Yes, at first I was going directly from the camera to the computer, but the camera is not nearly as fast as the card reader is in trasferring files.

Both the camera and reader were/are recognized as drives.

Ah-huh . . right.

The issue was that several people see that the need for going through the "hoop" as being unnecessary. I guess it is "unnecessary" 'cos we see it actually happening! I bet there are loadsa stuff going on that we COULD think as being tortuous, but we are not privy to them. This ways we are. Uh-huh . .. A bit like "What the eye don't see . . . " etc

Thanks

Grazie

Well, you see, Grazie, I came into this realm from the world of film (many years ago). All the "hoops" we had to go through then are still very fresh in my mind. Therefore, having something to compare all this to makes the current situation much more appealing, pleasurable, and not nearly so tedious or tortuous as before.

That's why I specifically used the word "grateful" earlier.

Jay,
your workflow is wrong!
You risk loosing files or having clips that will not join correctly. Correct workflow is:

1) Copy card(s) to individual folders e.g. card1, card2 etc. You need to keep the structure of the cards and the control files intact.

2) Make backups either to separate drives or optical media. Shotput Express is good for this.

3) Use Clipbrowser to convert / extract mxf files. If you have clips split over cards you need to move the component files into the one BPAV folder so the Clipbrowser can find them. Do NOT use Windows to do this as it will not update the control files, use the clipbrowser.

4) Drag mxf files onto Vegas T/L as you would any normal media.


The problem with having to work this way with Vegas is not only that it's slow. XDCAM offers way more than just "tapeless". We loose out on all the other goodies that XDCAM brings to the table. One would reasonably expect Sony's own NLE to be the tool that showcased the advantages of XDCAM EX. Instead that's been left upto other NLEs. Fairly obvious why Vegas was not part of Sony's HDNA roadshow.

As Grazie says, do you see a pattern here?

Bob.