Used to have a similar problem and then it went away, I know it had something to do with how we were formatting the disks and large LBAs.

I've got 12 drives all of which go into several different firewire enclosures without ever a problem.

But to answer Grazies specific question. Firewire 800 is WAY, WAY better than 400. Forget arguments over if it's really any faster, the connectors are light years ahead of the things used on 1394a.

Bob.

Hey, chaps, this is "Grazie" here? would you please disassemble your replies so it is simpler to understand?

DJ says " . . ive always had issues with 1394a and 1394b . . "

farss says " . . the connectors are light years ahead of the things used on 1394a"

Can I mix 800s with existing 400s, if I actually DO have 400s - not sure?

Please remember I do NOT get busy with screwdrivers and enclosures and jumpers . . yeah I'm a whooze!

So, what gives chaps?

Regards,

Grazie

think of the 800 as twice as fast as 400 in transfers. Most 800 disks will work at 400, and most external 800 drives have a port for 400 and 800. But in theory, drives can be link in a mix, but if you have two ports of 800, put all 400 on one port and all 800 on the other for the best results.

" . . ive always had issues with 1394a and 1394b . . "
1394a = 400
1394b = 800

the connectors are light years ahead of the things used on 1394a" basically, farss is stating their better built, less problems with poor connection. I think I've had only one 1394 cable go bad, but the 1394b is better, but harder to find.

Thank you.

So, even though the plugs "are" better - 1394b - they will still be happy with the other 1394a connected drives. Meaning I can mix 'em up?

Thank you,

Grazie

Absolutely!
The 800 plugs are bigger and all plastic, I mean good plastic, so the risk of sorting out pins is gone and the pins are better protected.
Fire wire 800 from memory uses 9 pins and you cannot mix them up, the connectors are different, period. So to connect a 400 device to a 800 port you need an appropriate cable and they are a little harder to find but they also don't fall to bits.
So for cables I have:

6 to 6
6 to 4
4 to 4
9 to 9
9 to 6
9 to 4

They're all pin counts.

Of course as other have said eSATA is the way of the future which might explain why Apple have left firewire 800 to wither, pity really.

One caveat. Some very early firewire device (DSR30, DHR1000?) don't work too well on 400 unless they have the bus to themselves and may not work on a 800 port.

Hi Grazie -

FWIW - for years I touted firewire (I've got 400 and 800) as the way to go for media storage - now I never use them.

SATA is a whole lot faster and will involve more or less the same money and tech skills... a LOT faster.

Firewire 400 is speeds up to 400 MB per second.
Firewire 800 is speeds up to 800 MB per second.
SATA is speeds up to 3 Gig per second.
(and I like the SATA plugs better)

Today both IDE (for firewire) and SATA drives cost the same - in the old days ( last year) there was a big price difference.

You'll need to install a SATA drive card (get either 2 or four ports).
Then it's plug in and go.

You format both kinds of drives by :
Right click My Computer>Manage>Disc Management
Scroll down the discs until you see the new one (FW or SATA)
Right click the red circle and INITIALIZE
The red circle goes away.
Right click the new drive and format the new drive.

It's really pretty simple - forget Firewire - it's one generation old.

v

Firewire 400 is speeds up to 400 MB per second.

Just to be clear, Firewire 400 is 400 megaBITS per second, which is about 50 megabytes per second.

Firewire 800 is 800 megabits/second = 100 megabytes/second

SATA I = 1.5 gigabits/second = ~187.5 megabytes/second
SATA II = 3.0 gigabits/second = ~375 megabytes/second

Practically speaking, the fastest, single SATA II hard drives max out at just shy of 100 megabytes/second sustained transfer rate.

If I were to go right now, I'd go with SATA too.
Had issues with 1394 from start and even nowadays, I still have this reflex of almost crossing fingers when I start some 1394 unit on my comp'.

"Practically speaking, the fastest, single SATA II hard drives max out at just shy of 100 megabytes/second sustained transfer rate." This is the most important factor, sustained transfer rate, especially for large files.

Thanks John - you are correct, of course.

Those bits and bytes always seem to "byte" me in the butt.

But bits or bytes - SATA is substantially faster, a tad more reliable and costs the same amount. In fact the only drawback is that most computers come with Firewire built in, and external SATA has to be added. Nevertheless, this is simply a card plugged in - no big deal.

Grazie, you might want to check out www.wiebetech.com for both firewire and SATA "docks". Rather than an enclosure, these docks are small interfaces which allow you to use your external hard drives and switch them at will. I've got over 40 hard drives and the docks make moving them in and out of the system a snap.

Plus, using your hard drive on location - it's way easier to pack a bare drive and a dock, than a larger and heavier enclosure.

Now if you're only adding a single drive, the enclosure would be a better choice. But I tend to use a dedicated drive for each client, keeping ALL my related material on that drive - media, still art, music, VEG files, scripts and even correspondance and billing (the latter duplicated on my main computer).

Right now, for instance, one of my "old" clients has reawakened after a two year hiatus. I just plug in the appropriate drive and everything is exactly where I left it. No hunting around for any missing files. For someone like myself, with a long history and a bunch of clients, this kind of organization is a blessing. Who the heck can remember exactly what we were doing two years ago? (Well, my wife can remember what we ate on our first date! but that's another story). I find that the "visual layout" of each job on that dedicated drive is an instant jog to the memory of what was going on. BTW - this will work with either FW or SATA.

v

v

I really hope you're putting those drives inside something while you store them and move them around. The electronics on the bottom are reasonably sensitive mechanically and electrically. A plastic chair, nylon carpet, take your pick. One little static zap and goodbye a lot of data.
And those RTX 1 bay enclosure seems awefully expensive. I can buy a 1 bay eSATA box for like $50.

So to connect a 400 device to a 800 port you need an appropriate cable

Or a small adapter 400 female - 800 male, just launched.

I want Grazie's 72,000 rpm disk drives... Now that's speedy! :O)

"Practically speaking, the fastest, single SATA II hard drives max out at just shy of 100 megabytes/second sustained transfer rate."

Same with Firewire. 400 & 800 mbps is the BURST rate. It's what is going in or out of the buffer. The sustained data rate is always going to be the same as the slowest component in the data path - usually the hard-disk drive itself, or the PCI port if you're using an adapter card.

In other words, for large data files, you won't see much difference if any.

The SATA dock http://wiebetech.com/products/satadock.php is $169us - while you can definitely get enclosures for less, the advantage of the dock is you only need one (or two to do disc to disc transfers)
Same price for the Firewire docks.

Re the bottom of the drive - yeh - you wouldn't want to have a key touch the bottom of the bare drive. So Wiebetech supplies a metal bottom plate and four little rubber legs for your drive. Additional plates are $11 bucks each - sort of high priced for my taste, but still a lot cheaper and easier than get a dozen enclosures.

v

I guess each to his own but...

These SATA drawers cost me under AUD10 each, should be able to get them in the USA for $5 each. The full kit, that's a draw and caddy is AUD 20. I have several firewire boxes with these fitted for use on laptops and a Shuttle PC with no room to mount stuff inside. But all my main systems have the caddy mounted internally, so I can plug a clients disk inside the box, no clutter on the desk and way safer and cheaper too!

One not so obvious advantage is labelling. We use cardboard luggage tags tied onto the handle of the draw with a rubber band and write what's on the drive on that. When you've got a lot of drives finding the right one can be tedious and time consumming. This way we can stack them in a cupboard and don't have to move them to read the labels.

Bob.