flaky clients...question

DJPadre wrote on 8/2/2007, 5:15 AM

ok, weddings.. lol alright alright i hear teh moans, but heres the conundrum...

many a time a client will provide their associated materials to me after the wedding itself. this is fine if its reasonable, but after hounding them, it seems half teh clients expect me to wait forever for tehm to get themseles into gear..

Now, one client had me wait 21monuts (i kid u not) another over a yer, and on average its between 3 to 6 months that I AM waiting for tehm to provide music for their edits..

now in my contract, we give them the oportunity to provide this stuff before we even hit record. Most are too busy to want to think about music and get back to us later.
That would be fine if they actually did that though..

anywyas, it seems to be that like most humans, they dont like the idea of taking responsibility for their own actions, in turn, they bust my balls.
A perfect example is a recent couple that took 9 months to provide music, then 2 weeks later i recieve an email asking me how the edit is going. Mind you since the time of their wedding and the time igot th music an entire wedding season has come to pass.
Were talkin 45 odd weddings from Sept 06, to April 2007. Thats more than most companies do in a year... and im not cheap..

Now despite my efforts to be clear and fair in my contract, it seems these people still dont get it.

Another thing, is that i recently sent a bulk email out to all clients (BCC.. i aint stupid.. ) advising that im closing the shop until september while my wife has a baby and we reset the studio since our relocation.

Now i was expecting several congrats messages, and also expecting afew "wheres my video" messages, but at what point does one say enough is enough?
At what poitn, can a service provider tell a client to back off? Considering the lcient already has required info in writing long before they even signed or paid
At what point of harrasment does a business refuse service?
In aus, a family run business is understaood to be more of a personailsed service, and this is one reason we get hired. The fact that we dotn outsource anythign, everyting is done in house, the fact taht my wife helps out with shoots and with edits and teh fact that im here for about 16hrs a day at the least each day.

II guess my rant is that some clients (i say clients, not customers.. customers are one off, clients are ongoing) have no regard for anyone or anythign save for themselves. Fair enough they put alot of moneyu into the service, but they chose to do this on teh outset.
So what then gives a client the right to not only make me wait for them, but to then have teh audacity to complain about delays?
In australia, we have a department called Fair Trading. And i spoke to them about this and u know what, there is absolutely no protection from clients who behave this way. However, id WE are delayed, the client is protected and has the choice to take us to a tribunal.
When i called them to ask about my rights as a sole trader taking paternity leave, this is what i was told.
Business' have no protection against unreasonable clients.
Business can however refuse or delays service if its made clear as to the conditions for that (which i do in my contract) but even with this, it just doesnt get through..

what are your thoughts..

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DJPadre wrote on 8/2/2007, 5:36 PM

Course, great idea about "give me by X day" or its $X after that

I might implement that.. once they see $ figures, they usualy respond

The other suggestions of project longevity (ie how long we sit on it) is another one

As for the work, im not complaining about my workload or the clients themselves (well some cients are assholes, but u get that with anything u do..., im complaining about how little our work is regarded... especially here in aus... to many clients, despite the $ value, they just dont appreciate the work until they see it firsthand (ie recieve their finished work) and even if ur the most detailed and attentive to their needs throughout the entire process, that doesnt mean jack until they get the work...

As for corprostess themselves. the thing about them, is that despite their own failings, they understand that you have a business to run. They expect that you know what youre doing and leave you to do what u need to do to get the work to them. Fair enough their deadlines clash with ther clients, but they pay extra to have teh priviledge of the service prioritised. and theyre happy to pay this. The difference here is that most of my corp clients DONT have a budget to worry about, so in essence i can charge what i like and my reputation with them (and the companies that refer them to me)leaves no questions.

Bob, your comments on suffering teh dramas are precisely why i HAVE TO be so patient. I mean lets say a client is having a baby. i cant really put my needs before their own can i. Now flip that over and bring on winter where things go quiet. Couples are bored, they not going out, they might be having troubles... anything.. but they want to hang onto what bought them together and teh video is one of those things.. Now WE'RE having a baby and i obviously wont be editing as much as i would normally. That same understanding and appreciataion of circumstance is NOT felt by the clients however. And this is what amazes me.
I had one client "demand" that i outsource my editing during this time, however this particular client wanted the works and didnt want to pay for it to begin with. My response to that was that if people want their work faster, theyd have to pay more so i coudl get more staff in, but clients like yourselves who dont have that kinda budget, might miss out on quality work.
In the end, its a toss up between coverage+quality vs price = delivery time

As for undercuting, one thing i am proud to say is that i have never stooped to those levels,, before i started doing weddings about 4 years ago (actually 3, but ths is our official third season.. before that it was al corporate), I knew companies that ask for quotes from other companies and match prices then throw extras on. Im lucky im not desperate for work, but these tactics make me wonder what is happening to the industry here.

the fact that here in aus, there are very few companie who use the art of what we do as a selling point makes it difficult for people to see it as an art. This "doco" mentality, this lack of "full version" information.. al these elements provide an average view of what we do. In the end, we cnat jsutify upping prices because the clients dont see the art.. they dont recognise teh art, as they recognise art in photography. Until they do recognise the art, we will only be able to charge so much for our services. Moreso on a technical and equipment standpoint as opposed to the art of what we do, and teh fact that were in demand becuase of it.

Moreso than this, 90% of videographers DO NOT KNOW how to run a business here. They fly by night and "wing it" hoping for the best. Not many have comprehensive contracts (not like mine anyway) and most either have very basic shooting or editing experience.
the issue with business, is that most of tehe guys DONT KNOW how to value their services, so end up underpricing, which sets a precedent for other business'
The hardest this is trying to compete with these idiots, becuase they talk the talk, but in the end, even though they cant walk the walk, the Dollar still talks...

Steve Mann wrote on 8/3/2007, 9:09 PM

Sounds simple to me. You get paid before you shoot. Don't even schedule the editing until you have all the supplemental materials.

Steve

p@mast3rs wrote on 8/3/2007, 9:32 PM

I just wanted to touch on the undercutting issue. A few years ago, I was always livid when I saw people undercut others in their profession just to get a gig or two. With more and more people getting involved with all facets in our line of work, undercutting has almost become a necessity for some, especially those starting out or those that arent very good at what we do.

I cant fault someone for offering to do a job for a lot less than I would do it. They need to eat too. While I agree whole heartedly about many not knowing how to run a business, they still have that right to run a crappy business. It doesnt lessen what you do as an art though. Those that undercut prices just to get gigs, do so because they know they arent worth a higher price. So what I would do is get a copy of the undercutters work and then show that to my clients and compare his product to mine and show the clients exactly what they are getting and why the extra grand is worth it.

I undercut several people this summer to make ends meet while school is out. I dont feel bad about it all. Clients got a great deal and got a quality edit out of it. Now it may make it harder for the next guy to justify charging more for the same or less quality. I merely came up with the figures that would allow me to pay the bills I have over the summer and recover any costs I incurred for the projects. If I can do the project at the cost of $2k and still turn a decent profit, I didnt see a need to charge $4k when the client would have received the same quality edit.

About art, clients will never see what we do as art. I think most of the general public hasnt a clue what art truly is, only the artists that create the art. While what we offer is an art, it really is only a service that the client thinks they are paying for and unfortunately, theres no changing their thinking.

Serena wrote on 8/3/2007, 9:52 PM

Artists are very poorly paid, anyway.

p@mast3rs wrote on 8/3/2007, 10:26 PM

Serena, agreed. They dont call us starving artists for nothing :)