I agree but you know even at its darkest moments this forum was still far more polite than some I've been to, just try posting a newbie question in some of the serious audio forums!

Just a word from the recently wised up. I do a lot of work for a very big organisation, mostly becuase I can do it way cheaper than their own guys can do it, mostly thanks to Vegas. Last year I get a phone call from one of their engineers asking how I did it so well, so quickly and so cheaply. Needless to say I gave Vegas a huge rap.
But afterwards a few bells started to ring out loud. I'd spent a lot of time honing my skills and techniques and I'd just given the farm away so to speak.
I can see this becoming more of an issue for many of us as Vegas speads it's wings. When Vegas was an obscure product it's a pretty fair bet that whoever you were helping was unlikely to be potential competitor but that's changing. Let's face it, in some ways we're doing Sony's job for free for them, I'd imagine the cost of having staff answer all the issues raised on this forum would be pretty hefty. Yes i know they have tech support but at a guess I'd say 90% of the Vegas issues get dealt with here rather than by tech support.

Bob.

I don't really anticipate a problem. As you may have noticed the only threads that were deleted were the flames. I think Sony is just stepping in to say, hey, things have gone way over the line, to the point where we have to do something. Personally, I've never seen so many emotional over-reactions to a few minor bugs and some features hoped for but not found. Meanwhile, I'm happily enjoying the increased render speed, the free Magic Bullet plug-ins, the incredibly useful new Media Manager, the superbly improved 60i to 24p conversion, the trouble-free monitor previewing I'm getting (compared to Vegas 4), the ability to see the exact length of my transitions as I create them (what a time-saver that is!), the improved visual appearance of toggle buttons, and probably on and on as I discover what else I like about my upgrade.

However, the only thing I don't agree with Sony about is not allowing non-purchasers to post. I assume this is just another precaution to keep trolls and flamers at bay. It's not the worst thing in the world. If you're trying to turn someone on to Sony Vegas they can still come in and see what others have to say. This just eliminated partisans of a competing product coming in with the sole purpose of dissing a competitor they perhaps fear.

...........Yes i know they have tech support but at a guess I'd say 90% of the Vegas issues get dealt with here rather than by tech support.


I agree 100%, this forum is a wealth of info , and problem solving .From new users to experienced,You may have several answers (fixes) to the same question. Different workflows produce different answers. pretty cool stuff

OT :Darkest moments of this forum to me was that bigfoot , ufo , nostradamus guy, man that was creepy.

>>...the only thing I don't agree with Sony about is not allowing non-purchasers to post...

I know if I couldn't have posted years ago with questions on the demo, coming from Studio 8, there's no way I would have sunk hundreds of dollars into Vegas 4.

Here I am today with several Vegas plug-ins, Red 3GL, Boris FX 7, Graffitti, Vegas version 6, DVD-A, Sound Forge as well as the noise reduction plug-in, Spot's DVD instructional sets, etc. etc, etc.. That's a decent amount of money that would have never been spent if I could not have had my questions with the Vegas 4 demo...and that's just me; 1 person.

Sony should really reconsider this policy.

You're all spending way too much time worrying about this. The fact that this thread still exists is proof that things aren't going to change radically. If something DOES get deleted that you don't think should be eliminated, just drop the forum admin a friendly note and ask if it can't be restored.

When recommending Vegas to friends and colleagues, the first thing I say, is,"You've got to get on the Sony Vegas Forum - it's one of the best features of the product".

I'm lazy, I know... but I don't know of anywhere else I can get an informed answer in a few minutes time - not for free - not even for money. And not only about Vegas.

Editing software does not live in an isolated world of it's own. Here is a friendly place you can ask a true expert a "stupid" question about cameras, sound, operating systems, money and occasionally even life itself. By and large the answers will be well thought out, informative and supportive. It truly is a unique community that I have grown to love.

OT is always the first place I look for an interesting point of view or a giggle. I also agree the name calling got out of hand, and am glad to see a return to civilized behaviour.

Thass whut I think.
v

Sony's not about to get rid of this forum. They'll police it, to save face, but otherwise they've got the greatest thing going.
The funniest thing is, they've suckered....er, um I mean, ingeniously figured out how to get their own customers into answering all the other customers questions. This has to save them a humongous fortune. The Sony reps, rarely even chime in on this forum. And when they do, I hardly learn a thing.
All that aside, Sony does make excellent products. They never give a real sale on anything. What, 5% off certain items, for 2 days at every store at once? And they don't really answer any questions here, unless quite a few of the posters work for them and have been keeping their mouths shut. (high possiblity)
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they're creating this illusion of this "Vegas Community" as the ultimate way to rake in more customers. Wouldn't you rather listen to a "friend" than some sales rep? This may be what's going on here.
As negative as that sounded, I happen to like this forum. But I trust nobody, when it comes to money. Especially a super, successful giant like Sony.............AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHGGGGGH! I've been banned!
Oh well, don't be mad everyone, I've just dealt with too many "successful" people to trust anyone completely. It's just conjecture.

The Vegas Forum predates Sony's acquisition of Sonic Foundry (the original developers of Vegas) by many years.

No... this community is very real, and to those of us on it for years, it's Sony who's the newcomer.
v

>>...I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they're creating this
>>...illusion...to rake in more customers...

I'm not paranoid. Everyone else is... :)

> if I were to post anything that was "unrelated to the specific subject of the forum," in this case Vegas software, I would be in violation of the "Terms and Conditions," is that correct?

By discussing Sony policy you are violating the Service Rules.

> I'm also a little concerned about limiting posting to only those who already have a registered Sony software serial number

It is not necessary to have registered any software in order to post.

Ummm.. beg to differ:

"3. Serial Number requirement – New forum registrants will now be required to have a registered Sony Media Software serial number in order to post in the forums. Users who registered for the forums in their "My Account" area before April 29, 2005 have been grandfathered in."

From the sticky at the top of this forum.

Which is marketing suicide IMHO. Many people regardless of what software were talking about download a demo and then often look for a forum like this to get more "insider" information. Its not as if Sony "techs" are answering quesitons here. That now is rare.

So If only registered users (people who have already bought the software) can now post, what was the point of trying to reach out to new possible users that may be interesting in switching to Vegas if you prevent them from posting here?

Having people "register" ie give a email, their name is one thing, expecting them to BUY first seems strange.

I am pleased that all the garbage talk has been eliminated. Although tempted, I never fed these comments (even from Zippy... and the like) with a response, hoping the threads would just go away through attrition and not ruin a good thing.

I am saddened that multiple forum members got so emotionally involved within the forum as to hen peck other members. It is sad that Sony HAD to finally step in and regulate the site because of the lack of control and civility of some of its newbies AND several long-time members (some of the biggest offenders—even if they responded at all (which kept the thread alive)). I have seen other forums dry up because the moderators were too involved (censoring words, promos, any disagreement about the product (however justified))--this forum was an exception. In fact, I mentioned this forum in several industry marketing presentations and how their hands off approach made their forum much more open and effective.

Regarding these new rules that is causing so much attention, I assume that Sony is perfectly willing to let the forum talk away, so long as they don't get any more of the previous abuse. However, like a law on the books that is set up "in case" of abuse, so Sony must have these rules published so it has a leg to stand on if it must halt an inappropriate discussion (I am sure the assigned Sony legal counsel was very concerned). It is sad that every post now has a "Report Abuse" link—but we did it to ourselves.

I encourage everyone within the forum, who used less than perfect judgment simply for responding to previous abusive threads, to play it cool and not respond at times--allowing an inappropriate thread to fall to the bottom of the forum and die--so we don't loose what has become a very good community and the example within the industry.

Edited - By the way, it is AMAZING how a new release stops the in-fighting. We have so many features to learn, debug, refine and show off that we don't have the time to mount personal attacks on our own.

I agree with BillyBoy on this. I recently consulted with a large software firm ($2 billion) and noticed that their forum required a software license even to enter, let alone post. I counseled against it and cited the Sony site as an example.

Their bad approach is not the example that Sony should follow, or they loose a very powerful pre-sales tool (posting in the forum was a very important sales tool during my trial period (which has resulted in over 15 copies of various Sony software (my own plus my company purchases)). Sony already requires a valid e-mail that must be responded to to validate the user--this should be sufficient.

However, I can see the reason behind this. It would prevent a "banned" user from returning unless he got someone else’s serial number (since he couldn't register the same number again and not be allowed via the black list). However, a banned user would still have to create multiple e-mail addresses to participate (causing a barrier to entry). I can only think of a few users who may have been banned (and seemed to be resurrected later (although not confirmed)), but the new comments were just as caustic and they could have been picked off fairly easy. It is interesting to note that these few users seemed to have single handedly pulled the forum off course.

I would see if the new moderation and "report abuse" works first, before going to the serial number approach (which could eliminate the pre-sales benefit).

> 3. Serial Number requirement... From the sticky at the top of this forum

You're quite right. I'd missed that and was only going by the Terms of Service.

Thanks.

Wouldn't the reason to be registered be to avoid hacked copy owners from getting support from these forums?

Mario

Excellent thought, Mario!

It would seem nothing is stopping ANYBODY from reading the posts in the forums, only posting to them.

So that's sets up the potential for prospective buyers getting pissed-off. Imagine, you were at NAB or heard about Vegas, you maybe downloaded the demo, you like it, you play with, you even read some posts in this forum. You are almost ready to buy, but have a couple questions first, you discover you can't post, your questions go unanswered, you buy something else.

Can anyone say dumb?

Sony still has a long way to go to improve customer "support". For Pete's sake, the whole customer "service" staff goes out to lunch at the same time and anybody call ing during lunch just heards a recording to call back. That might have worked for a little company that Sonic Foundy was, but for giant Sony to have such a policy is well... you know. <wink>

> Personally, I've never seen so many emotional over-reactions to a few minor bugs and some features hoped for but not found

I think it was more that people thought that there were (a) some long-standing problems that hadn't been addressed (or that should have been addressed in updates to previous versions), and (b) some shockingly obvious bugs (just as there were in Sound Forge 8).

I yield to no-one in my admiration of Vegas but do think that some people had every right to be annoyed.

Sure they can't post here but if they take a second or two to do a search they would easily find other vegas forums...ie: DMN and creative cow etc...
I just don't see someone THAT interested in purchasing any sony app to give up easily IMHO.

Ed.

"I just don't see someone THAT interested in purchasing any sony app to give up easily IMHO."

Agreed. I think after seeing they can't post, they would probably contact customer service with whatever questions they might have.

Mario