FX1 help needed - TIA

dsaelwuero wrote on 4/20/2006, 10:43 PM

Im trying to find out the best method to capture my videos and edit in Vegas. I record the video in HDV format on FX1.

When I select from the VCR Menu on the FX1 [VCR HDV/DV] HDV and [iLink CONV] On and I use Vegas to capture the video I get a *.avi file that is 720 x 480. This file looks pretty clean but is 720 x 480 16:9? It is labeled as DV codec. I guess I am confused about this. When I play the clip in the Win Media Player it is 16x9 aspect ratio.

When i set the [VCR HDV/DV] HDV and [iLink CONV] Off I am unable to capture the video in HD by using Vegas 6. I get an error that the camera is not recognized or something like that. Are those of you who capture the actual HD feed and then downconvert in Vegas, using some other software to capture other than Vegas 6?

I downloaded Cineform HD's software and set it up as described in the manual and when I capture and convert using that method my files are larger and they show as the 1440 x 1080 and 16:9. They seem to play slightly faster than the normal correct speed and at the end of some clips the video seems to "break apart". When I play this video in Win Media Player it plays in slow motion, which could be my 3 year old PC. The difference between this and the converted video that I get in DV codec is that this video takes up my whole PC screen on playback while the DV Codec is a much smaller window.

When I place two identical clips one in Cineform Codec 1440x1080 and one in DV Codec 720x480 on my timeline in Vegas with the properties set for 1440 x 1080 both clips appear identical in the preview window. The Cineform video is a little choppy and seems fast motion and breaks apart at the end of the clip and the DV Codec plays smooth and doesnt break apart. When I render each to a DVD will they both fill the full 16:9 screen or only the Cineform?

I am so confused (grabs head). Please help me out to understand all of this. I have a job next weekend and really want to decide on the best method to get the best video.

Comments

Serena wrote on 4/21/2006, 12:41 AM

The best way to capture (IMO) is through Cineform (doesn't involve Vegas). Cineform will recognise your camera and you just follow the prompts. It will reduce the load on your PC if you capture m2t files without splitting and then (again using Cineform) convert the m2t to cineform codec (with scene splitting if you prefer). You can capture using Vegas 6 (perfectly well) but I never do it that way. You must set your project properties in Vegas to 1440 x 1080, PAR 1.3333, upper field first. You set the preview window to "match project AR". If you're using "preview auto" you won't be able to see the difference between SD and HDV, but you will if you use "best full" and start zooming in.
Cineform won't run faster in Vegas than real time (assuming you've set frame rate correctly) but using Media Player or other it will run much slower unless your PC has a lot of grunt. Yes, your cineform files will be larger (use "medium" rather than "large" when capturing).
You will probably find that your PC hasn't the power needed to play at real time in Vegas HDV cineform files and you may want to look at GearChange (see VASST and previous discussions on this site).

fldave wrote on 4/21/2006, 4:50 AM

Vegas has 2 capture utilities. The "External" is used for standard DV. The "Internal" is used for HDV. Make sure you are selecting the correct one.

When you select "File\Capture Video", you should get a dialog box with the above options. Pick the Internal capture.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 4/21/2006, 6:54 AM

Your camera has the ability to output HDV 1440x1080-60i [iLink CONV OFF] or downconverted DV 720x480-60i [iLink CONV ON]. Both will be 16:9. The 720x480 DV you are seeing has a Pixel Aspect Ratio (PAR) of 1.2121. 4:3 DV has a PAR of 0.9091. So 16:9 is achieved by squeezing the pixels while recording and stretching the pixels on playback, not by adding resolution. Use the DV Widescreen project settings to see this footage properly.

The first thing you have to decide is what format you want to edit in. Since you have a 3 year old PC, you will not want to edit HDV footage on the timeline. It will be near impossible even using the CineForm codec. There are products like GearShift from VASST that will make this easier.

If you delivery is going to be an SD DVD, and you are not doing a lot of color correcting, chroma keying, or zooming in, then IMHO it is perfect acceptable to capture downconverted DV. This is NOT HD! But neither will the DVD you make so at some point you need to convert to standard definition (SD) anyway. Only you can decide if you should capture HDV, work in HDV then convert to SD or capture and edit in SD. Do a test both ways and see whichever works better for your quality wise.

If you want to work in HDV then use the Internal capture utility as fldave as suggested or use the 3rd party CineForm HD product as Serena has suggested. But I have the same feeling she has that your PC can’t handle HDV. If you capture in Vegas, you will not be able to edit these files on your PC, and will most probably need an add-on product like GearShift to make DV Proxies for you. This is exactly why we made GearShift (I am an author of the product) for people who have older PC’s and want to work with HDV.

For someone with a 3 year old PC it comes down to this:

Are you delivering in HD or are you planning to archive the project to deliver in HD at some point in the future? If yes, then capture using the Vegas internal HD capture and use GearShift to create proxies to edit from. You can still render from HDV and archive as an HDV project. You will edit at the same speed you always have because you will be using DV proxies. GearShift will allow you to swap them for the original HDV before you render. It’s the best of both worlds.

If you have no intention of delivering this project in HD now or in the future, then the simple approach is to capture DV downconvert as you already have, set your project to DV Widescreen and edit as you normally would. What you loose is the ability to output HDV back to tape on your FX1 to deliver HDV output in the future. You also loose any advantage from color correcting in the 4:2:0 HDV color space and the ability to zoom in on HDV footage and still maintain SD quality because your footage will already be SD. These are trade-offs that only you can decide.

~jr

winrockpost wrote on 4/21/2006, 7:41 AM

there is an option on the fx1when downconverting , tv type, if you choose 4:3 you may be indeed getting 720 x 480, not sure though not at my edit system.

riredale wrote on 4/21/2006, 8:15 AM

I may be missing something, but did you say that you can't get Vegas to even see your camcorder unless it's putting out DV?

I'm new to this game, but if you're using XP but haven't upgraded to SP2, then you need to install a special driver. You can read all about it here. This website has two sections; the first section shows how to install the needed driver, and the second portion deals with CapDVHS (which you don't need and can ignore).

As for the actual HDV capture into Vegas, there are several ways. Vegas6 has the ability to bring continuous HDV files into your PC, but there is a different (and in my opinion, a far better) way--download the latest version of "HDVSplit" and use it instead. In this way you can break up m2t HDV into timecode-labeled clips, just like ScenalyzerLive does for DV material.

Once in the PC you can use a utility from VASST called "GearShift" to work in the DV world. That'll get you started, though you will start having problems if you try to deal with >80 m2t clips on the Vegas timeline. But there's a workaround for that, too...

dsaelwuero wrote on 4/21/2006, 11:58 AM

Thank you all for your comments and help. I was trying to capture in Vegas using external capture so I’m sure that was my problem. I also believe that the 720 x 480 must be the resolution for SD and the 1440 x 1080 is HD. I was confusing the resolution with the aspect ratio. Kind of felt stupid after I gave this some thought last night after posting question.

My upcoming project will strictly be for DVD so I now understand better the differences and reasons for working one way or the other.

I truly appreciate your patience with my “ignorance” and help.

johnmeyer wrote on 4/21/2006, 12:08 PM

My workflow for HDV to SD projects

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