Getting close to a decision...

tcbetka wrote on 9/28/2008, 8:35 AM

OK, I think I am very close to a decision on an HD camcorder. I believe I have narrowed it down to two: a Sony HDR-SR11, and a Canon HG-20. Both are 60gb hard drive units, and both of course are AVCHD format. There are a couple differences between the two, and this is where the indecision lies...

1) Different frame rates. The Canon offers several different frame rates (1080/60i, 30P, or 24P) while the Sony offers only 1080/60i.

While I certainly understand the different frame rates, I simply do not know how important this is in an HD camera at this point. Won't most of my work (as a serious hobbyist) be done at the 30fps rate? Thus I would think the Sony would be fine in this respect, but there must be a reason Canon offers those three frame rates? I do like the fact that Canon offers a 30fps progressive mode though, having read about the differences between interlaced and progressive resolutions. But how is it likely to affect me if I don't buy a TV capable of handling the 30p technology?

2) Absence of a viewfinder. At some point, I can see myself doing some night videography. I enjoy astronomy from time to time, and we also watch for the Space Shuttle and ISS when there's a mission--and for some reason, we seem to get a real nice look at the duo when they come over.

A while ago I used a friend's camcorder at dusk, and noticed that it was somewhat difficult to find my target, simply due to the glare of the LCD display. So it seems that a viewfinder would really be a nice feature in night videography. While we have an older camcorder with VHS tape format, the viewfinder is much larger than that on the Sony SR11 so I am not sure it's an even comparison. I certainly used that unit to record at night on several occasions, and the viewfinder works very well--but of course that's all the thing has...so you have no other choice!

So that's about it. If you read the reviews on each unit, they compare quite favorably and there's certainly nothing glaring to disqualify one or the other. I believe that the wide-angle lens we bought will work on either unit; certainly it will on the Sony, but I believe the Canon will accept it as well. And the extra battery pack we bought for the Sony SR45 will work on the Sony SR11, but could pretty easily be sold on ebay.

So I would appreciate any opinions on the two issues as I have outlined above. You folks have been a huge help over the last couple of days, and I think everyone who has posted in any of the threads I have started. I can't tell you how much I have learned in the past 2 days. Your collective knowledge on this subject matter is simply amazing...

TB

Comments

Jim H wrote on 9/28/2008, 7:41 PM

There are a few non starters for me when it comes to cameras. Must have view finder. Must have external mic inputs. I got the Sony HD-HC1 a while ago and you can find them on Ebay fairly cheap.

tcbetka wrote on 9/28/2008, 8:34 PM

The boss went to Best Buy today and looked at some Canon HD camcorders and compared them against a Sony SR12 they had in stock. She chose the SR12 as the one that felt better in her hand. I haven't yet finished the side-by-side comparison of the HG-20 and the SR12 over on camcorderinfo.com, as those reviews are pretty extensive...if you really pay attention. But to those that only consider the DSC Labs color charts--then yes, maybe the Canon is the way to go. And yes, it does offer three frame rates while the SR12 only offers one. But will I *need* the other two? I have no idea at this point.

But I feel that the two camcorders are very close in capabilities, and that it's simply going to come down to which one feels better in my hand. But BB didn't have the HG-20 in stock, so I'll wait a bit longer--we decided to keep our SD Sony SR45 anyway because it's a relatively cheap way to learn videography for us, and it gives me plenty of time to make sure the HD unit we ultimately purchase is the one I really want to own.

Thanks for your post.

TB

Serena wrote on 9/28/2008, 9:09 PM

Astronomy -- a whole new issue which involves rather more than a viewfinder. If you just want to record the ISS or shuttle as moving dots then having a viewfinder (rather than LCD) will help. But since you will be using a tripod you could easily rig a view-guider and leave the LCD switched off. If you want to do more, such as mount afocally to a telescope for recording detail of the ISS or planets, you would be better with a specialised video camera such as http://www.astrovid.com/prod_details.php?pid=14&querystr=videoastro video[/link]. However you can stack frames from an ordinary camcorder but at 60i (or 30P) the S/N will be very poor. You can do better with an ordinary webcam which has more flexible control of frames rates.

Serena wrote on 9/28/2008, 9:18 PM

On frame rates: If you are going to transfer your productions to film (which you are not) then 24P is very useful. People who shoot 24P are generally after that "magical film look" which they believe is related to 24 fps cadence (rather than all the other important image issues). In your case either 30P or 60i is suitable and presently (I understand) most people in the USA still have interlaced SD TVs (not the same here). I'm surprised that you consider yourself unlikely to upgrade to an HD set, but if that is so then go with 60i only.

Serena wrote on 9/29/2008, 12:07 AM

Incidentally, I don't think you've mentioned looking at the DVInfo site, so you might find information there. I haven't read the posts on http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/forumdisplay.php?f=133ACVHD discussion[/link], but the threads look useful.
Even a thread on your particular question http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/showthread.php?t=123149&highlight=sony+hdr-sr11sr11 vs hv30[/link], but not very informative, I think.

tcbetka wrote on 9/29/2008, 7:28 AM

Thanks for the information Serena--your posts are quite helpful and your knowledge (like most of the folks posting in these threads) is very evident. I find the replies very helpful.

I didn't mean to imply that I don't have an HD television, or wouldn't buy one. In fact my current Hitachi is indeed HD-capable. I meant to indicate that I wasn't sure if I would ever have a TV capable of handling 30p technology. Maybe my current one is, and I don't even know it...

As for the DVInfo site, yes I believe I have seen it and have it bookmarked. I literally spent about 30 hours over the period from Friday afternoon through the weekend, reviewing everything I could find on HD technology. So things are a little blurry right now, simply due to all the new information. But I have indeed bookmarked everything important, and will peruse it again over the coming days.

With the help of yourself and several others, I feel that I am much more informed as to HD technology and the different camcorder formats out there. I may not be ready to buy an HD unit just yet, but I certainly feel much more comfortable about what to look for when I do finally pull the trigger.

Thanks again.

TB