Getting Hi8 tape into SVMS 6

MarkCambridgeEngland wrote on 9/27/2007, 2:07 PM
Hi.
I have around 25 Hi8 60min camcorder tapes that I want to get onto DVD plus 25 mini DVDs. As we are keen to play them initially unedited via DVD - whats the best way to do this? Can I import a Hi8 tape as a single file onto DVD which can later be used to edit? Will an entire 60 min (long play = 90min) tape fit onto a single standard DVD? What formats should I do - any help to kick start me? One prob I have is I cant leave large files on PC as limited drive space - 50Gb internal or 400Gb ext (USB2) so I need to create an editable file on a DVD that I can quickly put back onto the PC when I want it rather than playing an entire tape back onto the hard drive.

All help much appreciated. Thanks!!!

Comments

dogwalker wrote on 9/27/2007, 2:14 PM
Hi, Mark. I'm doing generally the same thing, although now I'm doing a little more editing.

Honestly, if you're simply taking the hi8 tape and wanting to put it on a dvd with no editing, you're doing the following:
(a) capturing via firewire - you can use Sony VMS, or you can use WinDV or virtualdub
(b) encode to mpeg2 - you can use Sony VMS (with very little control, though) or use CCE (about $50, iirc) or the free TmpGenc encoder.
(c) burn to dvd - use DVDA or something like Nero

I think there are free apps for burning mpeg2 files to dvd. I haven't tried them.

For encoding, CCE (CinemaCraft Basic) is very fast and high quality, and TmpGenc is high quality but not so fast. I haven't tried VMS encoding yet (I have stability problems currently with VMS), but it may be good enough, especially since you're putting only an hour on each dvd.

If I recall correctly, each hour of captured video (avi) is 20+ GB or so (dang, I don't recall), but after you encode it to MPEG2, you could delete the avi file.

I hope that helps.
vincej wrote on 9/27/2007, 2:40 PM
Mark - I am a brit in Canada and have been working through the idenical number of Hi8 and mini DV tapes, althougu I have the added joy of converting them from UK PAL standard to American NTSC.

what dogwalker says is essentially true however deserves some elaboration:

Importing and manipulating analogue Hi8 tapes is a PIG if you capture to Mpeg format. I have had all kinds of lip synch problems. Make your life easy. Buy an analogue to digital converter. The cost is not worth the hassle. OK D>A converters can be expensive if you want to keep the quality high. DO NOT buy the crappy ADS devices. I bought a device called the ADVCC55 from Canopus. Probabaly not to find in the shops as it is the cheapest of a high end professional product range and will set you back about $225 / 110PDS. It is worth it if you are doing that many tapes.

http://www.canopus.com/products/ADVC55/index.php

This device will convert everything into nice DV AVI - from there life becomes so much easier and simpler. Mini DV is already in avi - so no probs there.

Editor: I have spent years of my life buying cheaper editors ( 4 last count) - none of them work well. They all crash around. Make your life easy: stick with VMS... it is the best on the market.

1 hour of DV AVI is about 13GB or 3 DVD's, Once compressed into DVD format it shoud be about 4.3GB or 1 DVD.

From there you have a load of study. VMS / DVDA are outstanding but they are not aimed at your old gran'

Good luck,

vincej
Retired wrote on 9/27/2007, 3:45 PM
Mark, when I brought my movie camera severaI years ago I could not aford a minDV so I purchased a HI8. The next thing I did was to buy a capture card. At that time I found a WinFast TV 2000 XP deluxe for about $25. It works flawlessly with VMS. Yes it is a anolog device. I just set up the properties to capture as a avi file. Being a Hi8 it did not have a 1394 conection. No problem as the capture card has a S-video input and the camera a S-video output.

From the VMS menu I just select the capture camera and it ask if I want to use the capture card and I check yes. I have never had a single dropped frame, or voice out of syn issue. I have done hundreds of hours of video. It couldn't be easyer. And yes, the avi files are large. Just search the internet for a good capture card not to expensive and your on your way? My new camera will be a minDV with a 1394 output so I can use the uncompressed avi file.
Hope this helps.

CP
Paul Mead wrote on 9/27/2007, 4:43 PM
Just to add my comment, for what its worth...

If your Hi8 camera produces good quality video then don't scrimp on the capture system -- otherwise you have thrown that money you spent on a good camera down the drain. There are lots of crappy and quirky capture devices out there that produce lousy results. Personally, I think you can save yourself loads of agony and wasted effort by buying a good analog to digital converter. I got a Canopus ADVC110 and have been very pleased with the results. A couple years ago it cost me $225 USD from B&H Photo. More money than I wanted to spend, but after wasting hours and hours trying to get my ATI capture card to give me even passable video it turned out to be well worth it.

To me the test is comparing the video you see when you play a DVD created from the capture card with what you see when you connect your camera directly to your TV. If the output from the DVD isn't as good as, or at least very close to the video quality from the camera, then it isn't good enough.

[edit]

Oh, and I wanted to mention that you probably want to shoot for about one hour of video per DVD (assuming you are using single layer disks). That should provide very good results. You can look for discussions in this forum about bitrate if you want to learn more about that aspect of disk creation.
dogwalker wrote on 9/27/2007, 6:21 PM
BTW, I was in the same boat, having lots of Hi8 tapes, so I bought a Digital 8 camcorder, because it plays my Hi8 tapes and has a firewire connection. I've also used its passthrough functionality to capture VHS tapes (my original camcorder was one of the old HUGE vhs ones).
MarkCambridgeEngland wrote on 9/29/2007, 1:50 PM
Thanks for all the advice! It going to take me a while to work this all out. The PC I have (Sony Vaio RS404) has a TV/capture card in it and I know I can use the Sony supplied Giga Pocket to capture my Hi8 tape. I just dont know how to make use of this card via SVMS Plat. as obviously with the mini DV tapes the software take complete control. Whether the card is good - i dont know and will have to compare results. If after capturing Hi8 to AVI, when compressing it does this remain editable - i.e can i safely remove the large AVI file and know I can archive the compressed file for later editing?

Thanks guys - this Sony forum has always proved so helpful - much appreciated - Ill be back with more questions as soon as tmy 5 month old baby gives me a few minds to do what I want to do for a change!!!

Mark
vincej wrote on 10/1/2007, 3:31 PM
I can only talk about standard Def and only at a simplistic level:

Once you convert the AVI to DVD you are in fact converting it to an Mpeg format which are structured for DVD players.

Once they are in this DVD format you can reverse the process - I've never tried it and I am sure it is a pain.

There are tools out there which are will allow you to edit Mpeg files which preceed the DVD. I have never used them either but Womble is spoken of highly.

Peronally I do not even what to get in the same room as an Mpeg file let along try to edit one. Why ?? Mpegs are known as a "lossey" format ie they give up information during the compression conversion process. Bottom line - unless you are experienced, they are a pig to edit in so far if you sneeze you get all kinds of lip synch problems amongst other nasty experiences.

My life is already too short to be messing around with this > I woud rather go and buy a bigger disc and keep my nice AVI's - they never let you down !