Getting into PC- Multitracking...

Roboburger wrote on 5/7/2003, 11:08 AM
...And was bummed that SF didn't have a Multitrack editor, because I love CD Arch 4.0, Sound forge 6.0, and ACID so much. And I have always gotten smashing customer support From SF. I used Vegas years ago in 2.0, but was bummed to see that it had become a Video Editor...

But after a few reads on this bulliten board, it seems that Vegas 4.0 would be a great way to go for my new project studio! Hooray! I'd love to give SF my money, that I was previously angleing toward the 001- It'll be kickass to have the same feel that I have learned in my three years of Sound forge use (Started with 4.0 XP)!

Here's a few questions though- Is there a way to configure Vegas 4.0 toward audio use? I mean, is it possible to configure installation to install less of the video tools and stuff, and would this make the platform more stable? or should I just go ahead and do a full installation and that's the most stable? Drive space is not an issue.

I also need to purchase the balanced, (at least) 8 in/out, 24/96, A/D/A box for the PCI slot, what are your favorites? I'd like to keep that purchase around 500 bucks, but I can go upwards.


(Background info: I have many years as a live sound guy, and a decent amount of tape-based {analog and ADAT) multitracking under my belt, and am smarter than the average bear, so I am not afraid of a not-too-steep learning curve. The 'puter will be purchased new in a few days, so i Imagine it'll be 2.0 gHz-ish, a full gig of memory, windows XP, blah blah)


tuckermonster wrote on 5/7/2003, 11:31 AM
I use a delta 10/10 it is excellant, though there have been some reports on here of bugs between m-audio and vegas4 ,(I still use 3). I am quite sure they will work out all the kinks . For the money the 10/10 is excellant ! 8 in 8 out 2 digital. I am sure everyone prefers what they use, but I can say from my experience that the 10/10 is excellant. and I have many friends using other m-audio products with vegas as well. the 6/6 the quattro . Tucker
PipelineAudio wrote on 5/7/2003, 1:56 PM
where do people get this stuff???

A VIDEO app?

yeah it has video features and a lot use it that way, but the original vegas core user's group was audio all the way

this is a MEDIA app buddy, and I just ignore anything but the AUDIO side of it. If I felt the AUDIO features of another app were better, I'd be using that app
bgc wrote on 5/7/2003, 3:57 PM
While Vegas does provide excellent video editing/production tools, it's also a fantastic audio multitracking tool. As you may have seen in the forum, there are separate audio and video forums for Vegas. I think this shows that there are two strong camps that use the application for both uses.
I use the application almost 100% for audio only. With Vegas 4.0 you get all the audio and video capabilities together so you don't have to worry about what to install or what not to install. The application has been designed in a very elegant way so that you can choose not to display the video-centric tools. I have my application set up this way. This makes it extremely audio-centric and I don't have to work around any video tools. Of course when I do video work I can bring up the tools and they're just as easy to use as Sonic Foundry audio tools.
My suggestions is a STRONG BUY!!! :)
Roboburger wrote on 5/7/2003, 4:10 PM
well, BGC, thanks for providing information that's relevant- unlike Pipeline Audio, who apparently didn't read far enough into my original post before letting his hair trigger fly and post a bellyache with nothing useful in it.

I don't imagine I will be doing too much video work, so it is good to know that I can hide those tools. Do you know if the Video stuff taxes the system resources even if it's not in use? Now that I consider it, I can't imagine it would be that much- but still- can Vegas be configured upon installation to be oriented towards audio?

And just so I know- what kind of conversion forom A to D do you use?

Thanks. Curt.
Roboburger wrote on 5/7/2003, 4:14 PM
turn down the bluster a notch, Pipester. If you read my entire post, you will see that I recognize that I made a wrong assumption. I admit that I 'assumed' that Vegas had left behind it's audio roots when they started calling it "Vegas Video"- i don't think that it was too crazy of an assumption. I am glad that before purchasing anything, I read the Sonic Foundry forums and learned otherwise.

Now how about telling me something I don't know- I read through your previous posts and you seem to be the kind of guy with a few good opinions and a decent pile of expertese, lemme hear em- Best 8 channel balanced A-D-A PCI slot device under a grand for Vegas is...?
Rednroll wrote on 5/7/2003, 5:02 PM
Don't be so hard on Pipester.....that's usually my job. :-) Actually, this is probably one of the few times I'll stick up for Pipeline, because you don't know his background frustrations. Pipe, along with the rest of us Vegas users who have been using the app since the first release for multi-tracking needs get a little frustrated, when we hear users refer to Vegas as a "Video" app. That's the fault of Sonic Foundry's marketing of the product. The audio features have always been there and have expanded drastically since version 2.0 when you last used it. Our frustration is that we continue to use the product because of these excellent audio features and excellent user interface, but then we constantly have to deal with clients and other users who aren't as familiar with the product everytime we mention the name "Vegas"...and then they reply..."you mean that video app?" Finally after much of mine and Pipe's bitching and moaning the name "Vegas Video" has been taken off of the box, and is why it's now just called "Vegas 4.0"...and now audio people like yourself become interested...and the only real thing that has changed is it's name. So basically, don't take Pipe's spouting personally, it wasn't directed at you intentionally.

You can't do a seperate install of the Video features and audio features. There is a "mute all video" feature under the options menu, that will help reduce some of the resources taken by the video features.

As far as audio card recommendations that you're looking for. I highly recommend the Echo Gina24 cards. Price=$400. The cards are clean, easy installation, and superior driver support that work flawlessly with Vegas. The Gina has 2IN/8out on the balanced analog side and a spdif I/O on the digital side. I'm running dual Gina's on my DAW. They work well together and gives me a total of 4IN/16 Out Analog, 4IN/4OUT digital all accessable within Vegas like using a routing matrix on any mixing board. Sonic Foundry has been known to praise Echo's drivers. Pipe is using RME cards, which I've heard are a pretty good option also for the price, but he's had a lot of problems for awhile...but that just might be his system. M-audio also makes a few good choices, but I've heard some bad stories about their drivers lately with Vegas 4.0. MOTU, makes some nice audio interfaces also, I personally don't like them, because I think their driver support sucks, because they're a MAC company first and when they finally get around to updating their PC drivers Microsoft has released a new version of Windows. I went through this problem with my Midi Interfaces with MOTU and many of the users have seen this same thing on the audio interfaces too. From my experience and what I've read, Echo seems like the way to go. WWW.ECHOAUDIO.COM. Check those 4 options out(Echo,RME,M-audio,MOTU) and make your own decision.

Hopefully, we won't hear you come back later and say you've purchased a Sound Blaster Audigy card.

Roboburger wrote on 5/8/2003, 12:24 AM
It wsn't so much the spouting as much as he just spouted and then failed to ANSWER THE QUESTION. But you weighed in with an excellent reply to my two questions. It's nice to see a cool head prevail- I was all set to type "I GOTCHER PIPELINE RIGHT HERE, MISTER" when I logged on, but you have averted such bad form. I look back and see that I exhibited bad form myself by letting my pipeline annoyance spill over to the unrelated post from bgc. I apologize to all.

A good bit of my work is going to be transferring a buncha old 8 track analog masters to digital, and doing a noise reduction and remix job for some rock and punk bands- SoI'm really gonna need eight in at once. I've read a few good things about the RME stuff, but nothing mentioned how well it works with SF stuff. I'd love to hear from Pipeline about if he got his probs cleared up to his satisfaction, and where he thinks his earlier problems might have been, so others- like me- can avoid similar hurdles.

But since you like the Gina- I will say that I noticed that the Layla unit is now 24/96 and has eight ins and outs- and I also love the MIA card that I am currently using in this 'puter. Maybe Echo will get my moolah if nobody can tell me that the RME stuff is the better route. I had problems with the M-Audio card that I had before the MIA, so I wasn't really considering the Delta 1010 unless it got a lotta thumbs up from this forum. And I couldn't figure out what the right MOTU device woulda been, so I wasn't looking at their stuff anyway. Comments, anyone?

Y'know- just for laffs, I shoulda came back and said I was gonna use the on-board soundcard in my eMachine computer.
PipelineAudio wrote on 5/8/2003, 1:42 AM
The Echo stuff seems to work pretty well now, since they finally got around to making the win2k beta drivers....they used to be pretty slow on the updates, but I still got mine at home, using the newest drivers and it handles just fine...back then ANY card with spdif on it was worth its weight in gold

I use RME stuff just because I need a pretty high channel count. I DO have quite a few problems with their stuff but each driver they put out works a LOT better than the last. If you need only 16 channels, the soundscape mixtreme ( though out of business I hear) is ROCK SOLID. Tech support was so good on that company too...the mixtreme is a dual TDIF format card

Midiman lied to me pretty bad a few times and Ill never own one of their products again...let em rot...I had very bad times with MOTU gear as well, but we just got a new 2408 MKIII for the MIDI room we'll see how that goes.

My friend just got a Lynx card, and it sure as HELL dont sound like a soundcard...pretty nice!!! I can highly reccomend the RME ADI converter sets...for all the trouble I've had with RME cards, these converters have been awesome. The TDIF to ADAT converter on them is a lifesaver. The metering kinda sucks, but thats my only real rub on them
stakeoutstudios wrote on 5/8/2003, 6:10 AM
Some people may have had bad experience with M-Audio, but my Delta 1010s are flawless. Awesome cards, great drivers. Your mileage may vary but you can pick these up for a bargain price second hand.

Roboburger wrote on 5/8/2003, 12:10 PM
Thanks for all the input, fellahs. I am in no hurry to purchase, I have about a month I would reckon- So I am gonna casually fish around for the best deal and search on Ebay- there was a RME Multiface on eBay yesterday for just 560 buy it now, but the cat was in Hamburg Germany, so I was too nervous about him flaking out after getting my money...

Like the great hunter, I will crouch until the time to pounce arrives. I think it'll be RME if I can find 'em cheap, and then the Layla if I can't.

Roboburger wrote on 5/8/2003, 12:25 PM
725 for the RME! That's a good price, no?

Anybody ever order from them?

bgc wrote on 5/8/2003, 1:09 PM
I use the CardDeluxe 2 channel card. If they didn't sound so amazingly good I wouldn't (drivers are so freaking flakey) but it sounds like these don't match your channel / cost requirement.
My experience with the Echo stuff is that they're very solid with Vegas. The only hitch I've had on several systems is that sometimes the PCI cards drivers have interrupt conflicts with other drivers, causing crashes/reboots. Moving the Echo card to a different slot fixed this (W98 machine). This is in the Echo manual in troubleshooting but thought I'd relate it. It's a frustrating bug if it hits you.
Roboburger wrote on 5/23/2003, 7:52 AM
Hey kids- back to a A/D/A topic- Motu just introduced the 828mkII for 795 buks, and it looks like It could be a whoop-ass unit for that price- might just get me to go with that instead of the RME if it can match the manufacturer's hype... 10 analoge ins at a time, midi, adat and other digital ins adding 12 more. i fthe drivers are stable, I see this as a real possible purchase.

Any comments, anyone? You're collective wisdom matters to me, o wise ones...
Hulk wrote on 5/23/2003, 9:58 AM

The 828mkII does look promising. Hopefully it'll be available soon and we'll get some reports on it. Another one to look out for is the Presonus Firestation, but there is still the ASIO problem with V4 as I described in another thread.

PeterWright wrote on 5/24/2003, 7:30 PM
Just a minor point, Robo.

Although obviously 8 in/outs is hugely useful for live recordings, if you've already got 8 tracks recorded on analogue tape, you could easily input each track separately with almost any sound card, then sync 'em up and get to work.
momo wrote on 5/26/2003, 12:48 PM
Edirol released the UA-1000 about a month ago - it's USB2, a little bit cheaper than the MOTU 828mkII, almost as many features (no hardware mixing capabilities tho) and has 2 more XLR/1/4" inputs. Something to think about... I know I am.