Getting The Most Out of Vegas - A Quest

mjroddy wrote on 4/24/2007, 10:30 PM
I've been with Vegas since it just turned 4.
I peruse this forum religiously - mostly as a lurker, but not entirely.
Still, I feel I barely know Vegas.
I almost consider myself a die-hard fan, but lately I'm considering moving to the rapidly maturing and well thought out, Premier Pro CS2(3). My MAIN reason for this is that I recently purchased a Canon XL-H1 and want to get the most out of it for my next production. I THINK that means HD-SDI.
I come from a background of In-Sync's Speed Razor, on both a Matrox LE and a "cuts only" DPS PVR. Both of those systems were 10 bit, 4:2:2.
I gotta say, I notice the difference.

So my question is this: How do I get the most out of Vegas?

Right now, I just go firewire with my Sony Z1u (from work) and/or my H1 (my home/freelance). I am slowly learning color correction and it makes a big difference!. I'm also learning more about my camera(s) to get the most from it (them).
I've heard tale of "tricking" Vegas to look better (what was it, DVCPRO???), but I'd like to learn more.

Are there any clear-cut tricks or setups from the masters out there to help a poor sod like me who is aiming for the stars?

At work, I composite a lot, but mainly use Boris Red for that. At home, I'm just embarking on a full blown mini-short feature. That just means cuts and CC.

This is me, looking to learn.

Thanks!

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/25/2007, 4:27 AM

I THINK that means HD-SDI.

Then you will need an enormous hard drive--terrabytes!

I don't work in HD yet, but my understanding is that Vegas can handle it without any problems. I'm sure there are others here with far more information than that.

From from what I have heard personally--face-to-face--from the few PP users I know, they have a fair amount of grief with that app.


farss wrote on 4/25/2007, 5:03 AM
The XL-H1 feeding HD-SDI will only give you an advantage using HD-SDI recording straight from the camera head. Once you record to HDV playing out over HD-SDI gains you nothing, in fact technically you'll loose quality.
Factor in that as far as I know recording 4:2:2 HD means a monster data rate. Forget DVCProHD too, that's a step backwards. So you're looking at monster datarates and storage unless Cineform have an on the fly compression system for HD-SDI. OK, they do, via the Wafian recorder. Again though that's a $10K box that needs a fair slab of power.
Also from memory although the HD-SDI connection is 10 bit the XL-H1 only sends 8 bit data down it. The other thing I'm just becoming aware of is that 10bit or 12bit isn't something magic. Unless the whole camera is good enough all those extra bits might be giving you is extra bits of noise.

One suggestion. Spend some money and take your footage to a good colorist with a good system. Quickest way I've found to learn and evaluate things is watching what a pro with good gear can do. If they can't wrangle anymore magic out of your footage than you can you know you're looking in the wrong place for your answers.

Bob.
mjroddy wrote on 4/25/2007, 11:54 AM
Personally, I typically work on smaller projects - less then half an hour. I have a 1.2 terrabyte array, so the huge data doesn't shock me - much.
Bob, this is a point of confusion to me: some say that taking data - even HDV data is better via HD-SDI. I fully understand what you're saying about data transfer being digitial and loosing via analog, but it has been said that the HD-SDI signal will come in 4:2:2, 10 bit, so you then have that colour space and depth to work with. It's something I don't understand and part of the reason I asked here.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas.
John_Cline wrote on 4/25/2007, 12:17 PM
If you take the SDI output live from the camera, then it's 4:2:2 10-bit at 1.485 Gbit/s, if it has already been recorded to tape and you're playing that back over SDI, then it's 4:2:0 8-bit.
farss wrote on 4/25/2007, 5:42 PM
Well there could be an advantage to doing the project at 10bit 4:2:2, that does not mean you have to ingest the footage as such. Where it could help is with graphics, text and color grading. The problem with coming in HD-SDI is the moster datarate, the HDs must keep up. Ingest the native HDV and plonking that into a 10bit 4:2:2 avoids this issue although RT playback would require a similarly fast disk array.

Bob.