Glad to be home.

kkolbo wrote on 11/1/2009, 6:07 PM
When I read complaints about Vegas, I can't help but think that some perspective is needed.

I just finished a period of time evaluating Premiere Elements V8 for use by thousands of end users. Management wants to buy up to 50,000 units of it, so I put it through its paces. Man is it good to be back home on Vegas.

PE uses GPU assist. It made very little difference in the performance except in one or two specific transitions. Not worth the potential computability problems.

The background rendering had to be turned off because it was sucking down the GUI response on the timeline so bad.

The preview is not configurable for performance and when preview could not keep up, the timeline GUI controls would not respond.

The install process is fragile and can be a real problem.

The license stopped working, (purchased version) disabling the app. Fixing that was fun and it happens fairly commonly.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Just because things are out there, like GPU assist, doesn't mean they are a miracle. Vegas runs on almost any PC. It has had a show stopper problem a couple of times, but they do get fixed. The Vegas development team has made some excellent choices in these days where buzzwords sell product.

PE is very feature rich for a very low cost NLE. I guess if you get the right configuration and it runs well it could be powerful little tool. After fighting to keep it running, I would rather have my Vegas Pro and Vegas Studio any day.

I don't think folks really appreciate how good Vegas is and how inexpensive it is for the power, flexibility, and yes stability.

Comments

PeterWright wrote on 11/1/2009, 8:32 PM
Interesting stuff Keith.

Were you able to suggest that Management went Vegas, or had they already decided on PE?
mcvap wrote on 11/2/2009, 12:39 AM
One thing that cupture my eyes was the new motion tracking in PE.

Now the time for SCS team to add motion tracking in VEGAS V10 too -how much can we say it SCS: that is a real need !!!

Grazie wrote on 11/2/2009, 12:51 AM
WHat? And miss out on all those hours spent on tracking a mask in Pan/Crop? You DO realise that I'll have to drop my billable hours IF SCS do do this? Apart from the extra time it would THEN mean I would have to fill with wasteful things like, finding new biz and backing up my s/w and so on .. . ? Tracking Function?! You must be kidding me . . ?

If it ain't broke .. leave well alone.

Now, where did I put my abacus?

Grazie

kkolbo wrote on 11/2/2009, 6:00 AM


The motion tracking in PE is not what you are thinking. It is a cheap trick. It can take an item and make it follow a rough path based on gross motion in the picture. It is not like an AE or Boris pinned tracking. You do not want that added to Vegas just for the sake of having the buzzword. It is much better and not much slower to just make a keyframed path in track motion to do what they are doing.
kkolbo wrote on 11/2/2009, 6:02 AM

Peter,

I doubt they will listen to me. I have told them it is a mistake, but there are so many politics involved. If I could get Sony to give me an idea of what kind of deal they would do, I could present it, but Adobe is much more aggressive at marketing. I think management just wanted me to evaluate it and bless it.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 11/2/2009, 6:17 AM

"50,000 units"

As in user licenses?


kkolbo wrote on 11/2/2009, 6:45 AM
****"50,000 units" As in user licenses?

We buy about 5,000 new computers a year with a total site count of just shy of 50,000. They are looking at what to load on the stock unit. How many old units would get it would probably be a negotiation.

The problem that no low end NLE addresses is that we need it to support flash memory camcorders. The HD h.264 video that comes from these chokes most computers on PE, VMSHD and the others. What is needed is a Vegas Movie Studio that can batch transcode the HD h.264 video with AVC LC audio to an editable format. I can do it with Vegas Pro 9.0c and Production Assistant, but that app is not what we want to scare folks with on every computer. Apple does this on ingest, so that is what they expect and want, but they do not want Mac's on every desktop.

The other thing that is needed is an install that works and an app that does not crash or need a lot of support. Vegas Movie Studio does both of those very well.
Coursedesign wrote on 11/2/2009, 6:59 AM
I can't imagine that VMS won't add the h.264 batch transcode, since it seems that this format is what the vast majority of consumer video cameras use.

A procurement like this should be about which product a) needs least tech support, and b) is easiest to learn for someone who has never done video editing.

Seems to me like VMS would be heads and shoulders above the rest for that. And there is a clear path to a pro version of the NLE for those who need it.

There is probably someone on the committee who thinks Premiere Pro is the non plus ultra in video editing, and Premiere Elements is its close cousin.

I would certainly expect SCS to step up to the plate with a really good price for a "featured installation" like this.

The question is how to give Sony a chance to present it.
kkolbo wrote on 11/2/2009, 7:34 AM

Coursedesign,

You are one of the first who really gets it. On an installation this size, the tech support is a real cost. Stability and simplicity are the keys to financial success on this one.

While I am a Vegas Evangelist, I make it a point to look objectively at pros and cons, because each situation has different needs and nothing is perfect at everything. Most people just don't try to objectively look at their needs :-}

I have called Madison, but I do not know how I can get the decision makers together on this one. Agressive marketing in this market is not Madison's strength. Adobe really has that down and so does Apple.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 11/2/2009, 7:35 AM
i'd start with the reception desk. & the words "I'd I'd like a price quote on 50,000 copies of VMS for our company. Who do I talk to?"

If that doesn't get a response they it very well could be they're not interested. :D
Jay Gladwell wrote on 11/2/2009, 7:49 AM

Keith, I'm curious as to what kind of business would require 50,000 copies of Vegas. Granted, it's none of my business, but you have to admit it certainly does raise one's curiosity level several notches.



Coursedesign wrote on 11/2/2009, 9:05 AM
I do not know how I can get the decision makers together on this one.

I have long experience with getting these kinds of people to make the right decision, and will be happy to give you whatever help and specific advice I can, based on experience with very large organizations in the U.S. and overseas.

The most extreme situation for me was working for a VP boss who had a room temperature IQ and would never accept someone else's suggestion for what to do.

If it wasn't his idea, it was always a no-go. Fortunately, he started getting better and better ideas. :O)

Sometimes you can get people to see the light by profusely agreeing with them (not over the top!), then continuing to take this train of thought to its logical conclusion: "PE doesn't seem to be a good choice for us."

Just click on my name to send me an e-mail if you want some fresh inspiration for this.
Coursedesign wrote on 11/2/2009, 10:06 AM
Two things to note:

1. Decision makers usually make the decisions they are told to make. Who tells them? Their bosses?

No, people who work for them and have become trusted recommenders. Find those people and you've won half the battle.

2. Decision makers often do not decide based on what's best, but based on what's the safest choice.

"Nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM," and Adobe is today's IBM to many people who think of it as the famous company that makes Photoshop (or "Photo Shop" or ...).

Vegas may be a scary choice to them, as an unknown.

For that, there's lots of info in this forum about professional use at ABC TV stations and much more.