The Canon HV20 is the best selling HDV camcorder today in the market. It costs about $800 these days and it has very good quality and features. It is very so-so in low-light, but with the VL-3 inexpensive addon light it does the job just fine. I reviewed the item here: http://eugenia.blogsome.com/2007/07/06/canon-vl-3-light-on-a-hv20/

Go with the Canon HV20... it has great low light ability.

Overall I would have to say that I'm a Sony guy when it comes to cams and I much prefer the look and feel of both my Sony HC3 and HC7.. I like the options better on these cams as well (Sony has night shot which I use a lot) But My HV20 beats both my Sony cams in low light, hands down. It remains sharp and clear for much longer than the Sony's in diminishing light. The HC3 on the other hand begins to get soft in lower light, and my HC7 tends to produce a lot more in the way of noise.

I like my Sony cams... but when I know I'm going to be dealing with low light, my Canon is the choice every time.

Here are low light demos of the HV20:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hv20+low+light

The HV20 is a great value, and its successor coming in October may be even better (at a price more like the original HV20 price of course).

Still, I can't imagine you getting intimate sensual video with the "VL-3 inexpensive add-on light" riding the camera.

I don't see how you are going to be able to avoid having to learn a bit about lighting for video.

Not everyone has the money or the expertise or the muscles to carry lights around. Maybe he is interested in shooting caves or muddy places and so he can't carry lights with him. In these cases, the VL-3 can be of great help. Each tool has its usage.

My project/s will be primarily but not exclusively intimate sensual.

>My project/s will be primarily but not exclusively intimate sensual.

As I said... dark caves and muddy places... ;-) ;-)

Sounds good :O)

Important to me, not necessarily to others since it relates to my abilities or lack thereof :)

But first:

I much appreciate the feedback and would have been back sooner to acknowledge you all, but needed to created an illustrative page to ask you something. Give you a sense of what I have been able to do even though I am a pauper :)

The page is pretty self-explanatory showing a couple of stills.

As far as the overwhelming Canon referral, it may be the way to go (the CamcorderInfo "HDV Shootout" comparison agrees with you guys, too). Part of me wants the sexier and larger, pro-looking DVR/HDR and similar, but I do have to think of budget.

(As to the little comments on my subject material, I'll gently sidestep them. Go see my website and you'll see it's not porn, people. I'm an artist, not, well, ...whatever :)

So anyway, please go see the question page and let me know what you think. Hell, there's even a link at the bottom to come back to this thread.

Thanks.

>>>>> "A Seriously Aspiring Amateur Asks..."

________________________________

Coursedesign,
Do you have any more info/links to the "HV20" successor due in October? I was going to buy an HV20 very soon to go with my v1u, but I could certainly hold off a month or so if it'll be a nice step up.

I second that October question on the Canon.. Maybe I should wait till then...

FYI for those in similar postion as I am in decision making:

--- I found a couple small but indicative and no-special-lighting user test clips done with the HV20. Definitely not lab level slick by any means, but rough is actually good here to show un-varnished potential.

That said, I'm not experienced enough to comment if these clips show good or bad potential...

Interior Night: Canon HV20 24P HD Low Light Test Clips @ About.com
http://camcorders.about.com/od/camcordervideosamples/youtube/HV20LowLight.htm

Exterior Night: Canon HV20 HD Low Light 24p @ dabble.com
http://dabble.com/node/19851674

Sorry, I don't have any more info on the HV20 successor.

I only heard about it from a consumer electronics industry insider, with no details provided other than October which is now two months out...

The HV10 is a little better that the HV20 with higher bit encoding options, plus having a hard disk.

Here's a link: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV10-Camcorder-Review.htm

No matter what camera you're using adding more light is always going to improve things, controlling the light is what makes the difference. No camera will makeup for bad lighting, rather you should try to light for your camera. More light is generally a good thing, the lenses on the cheaper cameras don't perform so well with the iris fully open, so give them a bit more light to work with and you've got a chance.
Not only will the lens perform better, more light = less gain = less noise = more bandwidth for the image.
For what it looks like you're shooting lighting can be had very cheaply to for free. Scrounge discarded desk lamps, standard lamps, anything that'll hold a lamp. Some cinefoil, carboard, gaff tape and you laughing, well the pros might laugh but it's what's in the shot that counts in the end. What's out of frame matters nought.

You can make giant scrims from old white sheets and bits of PVC pipe, reflectors only need a big piece of board and some paint. I think you're a bit short on funds but got plenty of time on your hands, so visit op shops and dumps, scrounge an old shop manequin to use as stand in talent while you practice.

Bob.

The HV10 is not better than the HV20. With its 24p support, HDMI and mic options as found on the HV20, it has blown out of the water all other HD consumer camcorders in the market. It just sells as hot cakes, that's the truth.

Bob,

Among other things, you said:

"...Not only will the lens perform better, more light = less gain = less noise = more bandwidth for the image. For what it looks like you're shooting lighting can be had very cheaply to for free. Scrounge discarded desk lamps, standard lamps, anything that'll hold a lamp.

So true about finding solutions using some ingenuity for results, not film-maker brand name prestige. In fact, the lighting in the no fx/fx stills on my page linked in earlier posting here is desklamps and black cloth from thrift stores :)

That part I can develop further, the choice of camcorder is another issue:

--- I have to be careful to not get too caught up in market hype/what's-hot trends, physical looks of camcorder -- or even agonize between one camcorder's stated minimum lux rating, etc.

CCD/Sensor Issue

The HV20 and similar cams in this price range are all 1 CCD.
Taking all the above workarounds into consideration -- and that alot can be corrected or enhanced in Vegas...

--- Would a 3CCD cam make a sufficient difference in overall footage quality?

I.e. the next-step-up Sonys such as HDR FX1/FX7 (albeit CMOS sensors) and the HVR-A1 have 3, but cost a grand or so more too.

Don't get too hung up on the 1 chip / 3 chip thing although with smaller chips it is pretty significant, big chippers only come in single chip, with maybe one exception but it costs the national debt.

What a camera like the V1 gives you is a lot of image control, more things to play with and pretty damn fine looking color too. But still, for the type of work and the result you're after working with the lighting and what your camera can do is I believe the real trick. You see most people are talking about what they can make the camera do with what lighting they have they are forced to shoot with. You seem to be in the fortunate situation of being able to control the lighting and devote a lot of time to finessing it, focus on that as much as the camera, I think you'll come out in front regardless of what camera you buy.

Bob.

After calculating my to-be budget once I get the small inheritance to come in soon, I think I'll spring for what I really want, an FX. Varying reviews say varying things about low light and while only 3 1/4 CMOS, it's still 3 and a total of 3/4 sensor area - lol.

There will be naysayers, I'm sure, but in the end it's my decision. Part of it is just gut, part careful research.

And I've found a good local deal with wide-angle lenses, and XLR adaptor, 2 hour batteries, Spider brace, etc. for the same price as lowest legit MSRP (B&H $2450) for the camera alone..

He bought it in March this year and decided he wasn't ready for it due to needing to concentrate on writing. So still under manufacture warranty.

All in all, I'm crossing my fingers. Sure, an FX1 would be better still, but hey, life ain't perfect. Sounds like a deal to me. The rest is up to me in terms of what Farss and I have discussed here.

I wouldn't poo poo the Sony HC7 all that much. The low light performance of the HC7 is equivalent to the Canon HV20 when taping 1080/60i. I have also confirmed (as suggested on camcorderinfo.com) that turning Auto Slow Shutter Speed OFF puts the HC7 well ahead of the HC3 in terms of low light performance.

And, unlike the cheaply constructed Canon HV20, the Sony HC7 looks classy and is built like a tank.