GPU upgrade...and disappointing initial results

WayneM wrote on 3/15/2015, 10:58 PM

The saga continues of upgrading from On-MoBo Intel graphics (HD 3000) to a card that would fit in my current workstation. I apologize in advance for the length of the results here but I was trying to provide all the info and not waste Forum members time having to ask to many more questions.

I was limited in the card I could use because of space. My first purchase was the ASUS R9 290X-DC2OC-4GD5 but it did not come close to fitting and got returned.

Thanks to OldSmoke and others I had some understanding of the options either to boost Preview speed or Render speed. I decided to go for better PREVIEW performance (OpenCL support with AMD) and to just stock up on beer for when Renders were being done.

The best I could do was an ASUS R9 270 OC (R9270-DC2OC-2GD5) which I now have installed.

My System Specs on the Forum are now updated. I'm running Vegas Pro 13 64-bit Bld 428 on Win 7 Pro 64-bit.

I ran FurMark and the performance seems to really scream for this generation of card. Got GPU up to 100% utilization and watched the temp go up and the fans dig in to maintain. I didn't think to run FurMark before the upgrade so have no benchmark there.

With the on-board graphics NewBlue Titler Pro 3 refused to run due to wimpy on-board GPU. NewBlue Titler Pro 3 now runs following install of this new ASUS R9 270 OC card.

I've now invested a couple days of research and testing after the card install trying to optimize performance on VP13 Pro 64 bit on a current project. I'm not satisfied with the results and think I'm doing something(s) wrong and/or have a setting wrong or my expectations that are too high. I'm thinking it likely there is just very simple thing I have missed here.

After the ASUS card install the On-board Intel graphics looks to be disabled. The Intel graphics no longer shows up in the Device Manager. One oddity is that Sony AVC still gives me an option for QuickSync, which the Intel had, but no mention of of OpenCL or anything else. I find no setting in the BIOS or MoBo jumpers/switches to disable on-board video. And the Device Manager now only shows the new ASUS card. The Intel is gone.

First off, I'm trying to figure how to make sure the ASUS card driver is current. After install of the GPU with the included CD the "Device Properties" showed I was running driver v 14.201.1001.0.

I went to ASUS and downloaded then installed the latest driver package and GPU Monitor and Tweak. Device properties showed I was STILL RUNNING driver v 14.201.1001.0 ! I went searching and the best info I found was that the latest driver is a higher number, 14.501.1003.0 . This I found on Toms Hardware.

I repeated the download and install process a second time (defies logic I know) and Device Manager still reports I am running what seems to be the original driver. I may try the Update Driver option from the Device Manager and see if it finds a newer driver in what was downloaded. GOOGLE searches haven't uncovered any solutions, but I know this issue is not unprecedented.

So I'm trying to figure out how to get the driver updated if the Tom's Hardware info is correct, but that might have much effect on the results below. UPDATE: I just ran the Live Update from the ASUS GPU Tweak tool and it says the VBIOS version I have IS the latest.

I have had only one crash with VP13-64 bit Bld 428 since installing the new ASUS card. None at all prior.

TESTS:

My Test project source video for all the tests is Canon XA20 1920x1080 59.94P. Full frame, Resample disabled, no FX or CROP/PAN. Throughout the 8 minute video simple text from "Sony ProType Titler" fades up then back out. (Before the new ASUS card NewBlue Titler Pro 3 wouldn't run.) The project properties are 1920x1080x8 59.940p. Pixel format is 8-bit, Full Resolution Rendering is GOOD, Motion blur is Gaussian, and Adjust source media. . . is UNchecked.

Prefs/Video has Dynamic RAM Preview @ 200, 16 threads, and GPU Acceleration is "Advanced Micro Devices, Pitcairn" which appeared after the new card was installed. I have tested with "Video Preview" settings for "Display at project size" and "Simulate device aspect ratio" ON and OFF.

Preview is 1920x1080x32, 59.940p and the display is at 900x506x32 from running the SCS benchmark. I've tried a variety of Preview Quality settings (Best vs Good, Auto vs Full vs Half) with no impact.

I've run a bunch of tests with the new ASUS card, watched previews at various settings and timed some renders. These are the issues I'm left with:

1. DISPLAY FRAME RATE IN PREVIEW: In the Preview window I see a Display frame rate of 59.940 until the Sony ProType Titler comes up, then it rapidly drops to as low as 3 FPS. When the title goes away it zips up to 59.940. This is the SAME PERFORMANCE I was seeing with the on MoBo Intel chipset! So no improvement in Preview and that's what I was banking on. I tried simplifying the already simple title and performance still took a nose dive. Then I put in a simple title using NewBlue Titler Pro 3. During preview the frame rate stayed close to 59, not taking the dive I see with Sony ProType Titler. I even further simplified the font Sony ProType Titler to plain Arial, but the preview frame rate still collapsed.

The second part: RENDER TESTS This is where I didn't bank on a necessarily big improvement, but I wasn't expecting renders to take even longer than with the Intel on-board video support! I thought the more powerful GPU would provide some sort of incremental gains. Note that I did NOT yet Over-Clock the GPU or Memory.

2. I ran a series of Render timing tests (see below) using both the Sony and the MC render engines on the full 8 minute video. Some tests were run using options I didn't expect to work . . . but since nothing seemed to be working I decided to try them all! Grasping at straws here.

2a: 37:15 (MM:ss) is my reference Render time for the test video with SONY AVC to Internet HD 1080P using the on-motherboard Intel chipset BEFORE INSTALLING THE NEW ASUS R9 270 card. So far this is the best time!!!! (I either missed something here or have something bollixed up.)

2b. 37:59 (MM:ss) RENDER time using SONY AVC: In setting up the Render options "QUICK SYNC" appears in the dropdown. (That was an option with the Intel on-board graphics chip. But the Intel chipset no longer appears in the Device Manager so I don't see how I can disable it any further without prying it off the board :-) I selected "Use GPU if available"

2c. 48:08 (MM:ss) RENDER time using MainConcept AVC: "Use OpenCL if available" rendering option was available and I chose it. (No option appeared related to the inactive Intel chipset.)

2e. 49:18 (MM:ss) RENDER time using MainConcept AVC: "Use CUDA if available" rendering option was available and I chose it. (No option appeared related to the inactive Intel chipset.)

Any thoughts on what I missed am doing wrong? I may not have remembered all the changes I made to settings on recommendations I saw in threads here. I gathered a lot of comments and tried to get this close to right from the beginning.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Wayne

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WayneM wrote on 3/24/2015, 6:27 PM

Here's the earlier XDCAM benchmark along with a couple new ones. (Can't get 60i without reduction of frame size to 1280 x 720.)

I also was curious and did renders before and after Disabling Resampling on all events to see how much times were impacted if at all.

XDCAM 1920x1080x24p MP4: 1:27 (MM:SS) 186 MB

XDCAM 1920x1080x30p MP4: 0:32 (MM:SS) 198 MB
XDCAM 1920x1080x30p MP4 (NO Smart Resamp): 0:31 (MM:SS) 198 MB

XDCAM 1920x1080x30i MP4: 0:44 (MM:SS) 199 MB
XDCAM 1920x1080x30i MP4: (NO Smart Resamp): 0:40 (MM:SS) 200 MB

OldSmoke wrote on 3/24/2015, 6:35 PM

You can get 60i at 1920x1080 but not 60p.

The times look a lot better now! You should get another 15-20% with the CPU at 4.2 or 4.3GHz.

Edit: The SCS Benchmark project is 30p and so most of the source material. The only major impact you will with resampling on is rendering it to 60i because VP will try and interpolate an additional frame between to 30p frames. 30i will just negate odd and even lines from each frame which doesn't require much processing power.

WayneM wrote on 3/25/2015, 12:15 PM

OldSmoke,

When I built this workstation 4 years ago the Sony Forum was full of benchmark reports on systems from folks like you. Based on budget that MoBo seemed very good and continues to serve me well.

I looked again at all the MoBo specs/manual and it looks like I need to find the software to control the "TPU" thru AI Suite II. I don't want to go playing around with the MoBo switches. I started AI Suite and see only the sensor and monitor tabs, nothing more. Maybe I uninstalled some of the other components I thought I didn't want accessible thru that interface over the past 4 years? Those brain cells are gone!

I'm planning to download and install the latest version of AI Suite II. (There are two releases at the ASUS site and the higher looking version number has an older release date!)

I pretty sure I NOT have the ASUS USB 3.0 Boost technology enabled which I think can cause some performance issues.

It was late last night and I decided to not go mucking with things.

Thanks for giving me the OC speed that worked for you. Do you happen to remember what you used to manage OC control on the P8Z68-V PRO (I don't have the GEN-3)? Do you remember if you used the Auto Tuning feature? I also found something about "TurboEVO" as a module. TOO MANY OPTIONS!

Once the MoBo is optimized I'll do more with the ASUS GPU Tweaker software. Right now the R9 270 is just running at stock speed.

Thanks for all the guidance! I'm hoping the info you've shared and the results I've posted are of use to others.

Wayne

OldSmoke wrote on 3/25/2015, 12:49 PM

Let me look up your MB manual, I had the Gen-3 the last time but they are very similar. It's better to OC in the Bios rather then using the AI Suite.

WayneM wrote on 3/25/2015, 6:57 PM

On Boot I went into the BIOS. Went to AI Tweaker Tab and clicked on OC Tuner. Machine ran thru a series of reboots. Forgot to capture readings before changes.

Afterwards settings:
Target CPU Turbo-Mode Speed: 4429MHz
Target DRAM Speed: 1648 MHz

Wasn't certain anything was changed, maybe I did this years ago. . .but now I guess not. I took one of the longer renders for the SCS Benchmark, going to Sony XAVC 4K MXF file, whatever that is.

Results:
SONY XAVC 4K 4096x2160 Intra 29.97p MXF: 9:28 (MM:SS) 1634 MB
SONY XAVC 4K 4096x2160 Intra 29.97p MXF: OCed 5:02 (MM:SS) 1634 MB

Sheesh, it darn near cut the render time in half!

And it made my machine sweat. . .along with me. About two minutes into this 5 minute render I got a popup saying the CPU temp was 73°C. (Didn't then know the starting temp.) Case is still open from the card upgrade and I noticed the fan was really humming. I didn't have the AI Suite Monitor and Sensor showing.

The only cooling is the stock assembly from Intel which comes with the chip. I let it run to the finish but don't think I will try that trick again! A couple minutes after the render the CPU was at 29°C.

I've never worked with OCing and need to look into this ASUS intelligent BIOS and see if anything acts as a backstop to dial down OCing if the CPU if the temperature goes outside certain limits. I'm thinking I should go back to default settings until I know more about what I'm doing :-) I didn't think a short render would crank the temp up that fast. Live and learn.

So, you didn't come up with your 'handle' based on a MoBo experience I hope :-)

Wayne

OldSmoke wrote on 3/25/2015, 7:21 PM

If you are running air cooled, 3.8GHz is about the limit. Try a H100(2x 120mm fans) watercolor or at least a H80(1x 120mm fan).

It seems your bus multiplier was changed, leave it at 100.

OldSmoke wrote on 3/26/2015, 5:37 PM

@Wayne

I downloaded the manual and looked at the bios settings, it's slowly coming back to me. It's basically very simple. Porvided you have at least a closed loop water cooler such as a H80 or similar, in the AI Tweaker set the "BCLK/PCIE Frequency" to 100, change the "By All Cores (Can Adjust in OS)" to 40 for a starter and leave the rest in Auto. Boot and see if its stable and not too hot. Slowly increase to 41,42 and 43. Some CPU's can handle more but certainly not on air cooled. The CPU will throttle down if temps are too high or you get a BSOD. DRAM speed should be 2133 in XMP mode but only of your RAM is capable of it.

WayneM wrote on 3/28/2015, 1:05 PM

Thanks for all your help and guidance, especially those critical things to check in the BIOS. Your prior experience with this MoBo is a godsend for me!

Currently I only have the stock Intel cooler. Did quick searches for H100 etc but didn't come up with anything yet. You just gave me added info so I can probably track down a source.

Since my times reported before were without OCing I'm thinking they are certainly a big improvement and all I need at this time. Every time I make changes to my primary there is a risk and for this older unit I don't think I want to do the enhanced cooling. I do see a new workstation in the near to mid-term future and a full blown upgrade would make sense, including increased cooling capacity if that is a requirement.

My current challenge is to finish up a DVD project and I'm running some benchmarks on my three titling options to get away from the Sony ProType Titler and figure out when it is best to use the NB Pro 3.0 vs. the Sony Text and Titles. I've already started learning a bit about what the alternatives are best at and got some good insights from others who have been in the same quandary and have similar plain-Jane requirements as are 80% of mine. I'd REALLY like to have to learn only one new titling generator :-)

Wayne

OldSmoke wrote on 3/28/2015, 1:27 PM

Wayne
Search for "Corsair H100i". This a good quality closed loop water cooler with 2x 120mm fans on a 120x240mm heat exchanger. If your current PC case can't accomodate it, try the Corsair H80i which is a single 120x120mm heat exchanger with two fans in push pull configuration. Because they are close loop, they are easy to install as an air cooler and without the need to check on water level and other issues that come with a custom water cooler system.

A faster CPU can feed frames faster to the GPU and a fast GPU will be better utilized.

diverG wrote on 3/28/2015, 3:33 PM

Before you start overclocking save your bios profile. I think it comes under advanced->tools. It's a lifesaver
As you increase the clock-rate try a short 15 minute render and note the cpu temperature rise.
My machine was fine up to 4.5GHz on day to day work but cooked on rendering until the cooling was uprated.

Used the asus suite tools.

WayneM wrote on 3/28/2015, 5:00 PM

Thanks, now I found them. Current case would require the H80i unit. Now knowing parameters for high-performance GPU dual cards and added cooling will give me info I need when I custom build.

I source most of the components from a large Micro Center store in the region. They had a huge selection of cases and all the components and cooling systems. Nice to be able to see them in person first. Most interest for those packages comes from very serious gamers, of course.

Wayne

WayneM wrote on 3/31/2015, 5:51 PM

Thanks much for the insights. I have no desire to turn my workstation into a burger press.