Graffiti woes

kairosmatt wrote on 6/30/2007, 7:30 AM

Hey guys,
Sorry to post here, but the Boris people are no help and the instruction manual is useless right now. And I know some of you are efficient Graffiti users, and its driving me crazy.

I am using graffiti 5 as a plugin for Vegas 7e. There are many problems and glitches, but this is the worst:
When I am creating a titles scroll, I go to exit the plugin and save the settings, Great. But when in the Vegas timeline things are messed up, including:

1. The header and footers. The spacing are nothing like the ones inside graffiti.
2. Mask in/out are not always there. Sometimes, but not always.
3. The blend top/bottom settings do nothing in Vegas, though they show up in the graffiti composite window.

There are many small glitches like:
1. When moving the mask in/out or blend top/bottom sliders it just resets to where it was. Input a value and it resets. Sometimes, but not always, clicking on a timeline keyframe and coming back to the control window fixes this problem.
2. Sometimes when you adjust the headers/footers in the control window for a text track, it makes no difference in the composite window. Somehow you need to jog the program into updating, and I found that occasionally clicking on settings in the transformation track actually can do this. Though that doesn't make any sense.
3. Sometimes when changing settings to a text track in the control window and then moving on to the next track the settings just go back to where they where.

Any ideas from Graffiti users-or is the plugin just useless and buggy?

Comments

Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 8:22 AM

Graffiti as a plugin to Boris Red is pretty amazing. Nowhere near as good as a plugin to Vegas though. I'm having great luck with http://www.prodad.de/gb/heroglyph_std_details.htmlHeroglyph[/link]. It does everything that I want and is quick and easy to use. My only complaint is that you have to buy a second license for a second computer like a laptop. They give you a break on the price for the second licence, but I still resent having to do that. Other than that it is really great.

Dreamline wrote on 6/30/2007, 11:07 AM

I am using G5 and I certainly wish I had Red, the complete package. However, I am not having any serious problems, but things sometimes go whacky and I have to start a title over. Overall, I am very happy with it.

If you have a particular problem I can try it out to see how it behaves on my rig.

UKAndrewC wrote on 6/30/2007, 11:23 AM

Hello Laurence

I agree, Heroglyph is a great titler and just to extend your logic - all desktops should come with a free laptop?

Andrew

Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 12:45 PM

I use a desktop sometimes and a laptop at others. I feel no guilt whatsoever about installing software which is theoretically licensed to one single computer on both computers. Should I?

Just to extend your logic - should I buy a separate CD if I want to play it in my car instead of my living room? Should I buy a separate DVD if I wan't to play it in my bedroom TV instead of the living room where I originally intended to play it?

kairosmatt wrote on 6/30/2007, 2:28 PM

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to buy a new titler, even a great one.

I've found that changing the duration length of the title scroll and exiting graffiti usually gets all the other changes to update on the Vegas timeline. Not always, but with more consistency than anything else I've tried with this thing. Then you have to go back into Graffiti and change the duration back.

Does any one know of any up to date classes or tutorials for these programs (I have FX too)? The Boris tutorials are too thin, and their website lacking.

Also, I agree with Laurence. I don't want to buy one CD per player!

UKAndrewC wrote on 6/30/2007, 3:41 PM

The CD analogy isn't the same. You buy ONE physical copy of a CD, that you can use where you want. You don't have permission to copy it.

With software you are given permission by the copyright holder to use ONE copy of THEIR software. You don't own the software only licence it.

There is no theory about it, if software is licenced for one machine and you install it on others, that is theft.

If you don't want to feel guitly about stealing someone's income, then I suppose that's up to you.

If you want the convenience of a Laptop, you buy one. Or maybe you think it's OK to steal those too?

Andrew

Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 4:24 PM

I bought Heroglyph twice and I only use one copy at a time. I am the one who is the victim of theft here.

UKAndrewC wrote on 6/30/2007, 4:53 PM

You may only use one PC at a time but it is possible to use both together, that is what you pay for.

Buying a licence to use software isn't theft. The owner of the software, has the right to state the conditions of the licence you buy.

Everyone in editing should be aware of copyright law and as a regular contributor to this forum I am surprised that you think copyright can be ignored.

Laurence wrote on 6/30/2007, 5:54 PM

Well if I had to buy Vegas twice in order to use it on my laptop, I'd be using something else. There are people who don't even buy the software once you know. I believe that most companies are more worried about people that don't buy the software at all than they are with those who need to work in more than one location.

I expect that in a few years I will dump the desktop altogether, but I can't just yet. I hate editing in a closed in room, but I don't like leaving my laptop on for lengthly renders either. To me, both machines are part of the same setup. What about dual-cores? Should people with dual-cores buy the software twice? What about quad cores? Shouldn't they need four licenses? My laptop is just an extension of my overall setup.

To be frank, it is rare that a software company won't let you do this. Most companies will allow you to register at least two computers when as part of their licensing deal. The only ones I can think of right now that won't are Cineform and Heroglyph. This is one of the reasons I'm going to stop using Cineform as soon as the remaining Vegas m2t bugs are worked out.

Anyway, Heroglyph is a really good titler, but once Vegas has a decent titler I'll probably let my license lapse. I just don't see myself paying for two sets of updates each time they update it. I hate to recommend any software without pointing out it's frustrating copy protection issues though. Anyone buying it who also works on a laptop should be aware of this and figure it into the price.

farss wrote on 6/30/2007, 7:08 PM

Almost all high end software is licenced per seat, the problem with the moveable seat (like Vegas lets you do) is there's then no real way to control who uses it without resorting to online authentication and that's more grief than anyone should have to suffer.
The other alternative is to use a USB dongle like Waves use and I don't even want to think about the grief that can entail.
Bob.

kentwolf wrote on 6/30/2007, 8:20 PM

>>...I am using graffiti 5 as a plugin for Vegas 7e...

I came to the conclusion some time ago that it is best to use the Boris products as standalone.

Yeah, they are supposed to be a plugin, but it just seems rather "bolted on."

I had a project a couple years back where I used Red 3 GL as a Vegas plug-in. I used some of the Red lower-thirds.

When I rendered the final Vegas project (best quality), the the Red 3GL lower thirds came out very poor quality. If I rendered the Red 3GL items seperately, all was fine. I have no plans to use Boris products as a Vegas plug-in ever again.

Of course one does have the Red just showing a single video frame issue, etc. I just use Boris products as standalone. Makes life easier.

UKAndrewC wrote on 7/1/2007, 3:17 AM

People who tell themselves that they aren't really doing any harm and that it is fault of the system, or say 'well there are worse things' are only fooling themselves, if they get found by the law, it will be a different story.

Copyright law exists to protect the interests of copyright owners, the people who spent years developing a product so that you can benefit from it.

It doesn't matter if you steal a car, mug someone for their shoes or ignore copyright. You are taking something that doesn't belong to you, which is illegal and morally reprehensible.

This isn't really about theft it's about consience and whether or not you get found out. I challenge anyone who feels justified to break copyright law to hang a sign on their house stating that is what they do.

Sorry to hijack this thread but I think copyright theft is an important issue in an editing forum.

ABOUT BORIS GRAFITTI - I don't have any problems with it at all.

Andrew

kairosmatt wrote on 7/1/2007, 6:51 AM

I've found this thread really interesting, especially since where I live almost nobody pays for the royalty rights of music. I've seen plenty of Bahamian music on TV and know of several instances where the music was just ripped of CD. I agree that software is different, but it is a definite knock against a product like Heroglyph if you have to buy separate licenses per computer.

But back on topic: does anybody know of any good documentation of training for Boris?

mark-woollard wrote on 7/1/2007, 10:03 AM

I worked through this Graffiti tutorial some time ago.

http://tinyurl.com/nubvw

At the time, it taught me a lot about Graffiti. But since then, I haven't needed fancy titling much so haven't continued using Graffiti. I'd need to retrain myself to do so.

Mark

kairosmatt wrote on 7/2/2007, 9:20 AM

Mark,
Thanks for that link, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I'll work my way through it and see what I learn.
Cheers