Grass Valley HQX rendering 8 bit?

JohnnyRoy wrote on 2/6/2016, 10:45 AM

Here is something try: In your Project Properties, change the Pixel Format to 32-bit. This is what you should be using when working with 10-bit source files. See if that makes a difference in the render.

~jr

Eagle Six wrote on 2/6/2016, 10:57 AM

Thanks Jonny for the reply and suggestion. Among the trials was 32 bit VL in Project Properties. The primary source is ProRes 422HQ and DNxHD220X. I have been thinking it is something I have forgotten before I render, but just haven't been able to clear my head to figure it out.

Best Regards....George

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/6/2016, 11:01 AM

Regardless that the Canopus HQX is a 10bit codec, unfortunately it is decoded in Vegas as 8bit only. So take care here.

If you wish to render to true 10bit one way to do that is using the Cineform codec - or XAVC. Or Sony YUV - what is uncompressed.

If you have a workflow for ProRes 10bit 422, you have again the situation that ProRes is decoded as 8bit in Vegas only. Beside the fact that Vegas crashes with ProRes files from a Shogun for example. What I do to overcome that is to render with TMPGenc 5/6 to Cineform. Cineform that comes in the system by installing the free GoPro-Studio. With that you can run a 10bit workflow in Vegas too, even if your base is ProRes.

Eagle Six wrote on 2/6/2016, 11:16 AM

Thanks Wolfgang for the information.

Just to be clear, you are saying, ProRes 10 bit into Vegas becomes 8 bit and regardless of the render codec, such as CineForm, which does read 10 bit in MediaInfo, the contents is only 8 bit.

Vegas can work with CineForm 10 bit .avi, and pass 10 bits out to render in CineForm retaining the 10 bits.

Therefore, if I avoid putting ProRes in Vegas first (which will decode to 8 bits), transcode it with TMPGenc to CineForm, then run it into Vegas, subsequent intermediate renders out of Vegas using CineForm codec will retain the 10 bits.

Best Regards......George

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/6/2016, 4:26 PM

Yes, that is what we have found out in long tests in our German forums. You could also think about a 10bit workflow based on XAVC in Vegas, because XAVC has been implemented in Vegas in a native way similar to Cineform. So even if I run my 10bit workflow based on Shogun files, I would prefere XAVC today - because that would avoid the time consuming conversion of the ProRes files. But it is as it is.

Eagle Six wrote on 2/6/2016, 4:59 PM

Once Again, Thank You Wolfgang,

One more question, clarrification. My ProRes422HQ and DNxHD220X files are from a Atomos Samurai Blade.

If I bring the PreRes422HQ source into my Vegas Pro 13, and render to XAVC-Intra (which MediaInfo reads as 10 bit 422), the resulting rendered file will retain the 10 bits of the original ProRes?

Or, would I still need to first transcode the file somehow before Vegas.....I don't think so, because I'm not aware of a non-Sony transcoder or encoder that would provide XAVC?!?

Also, are you familiar with a transcoder as an alternative to the TMPGEnc ver 5/6?

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/7/2016, 3:04 AM

In that workflow you will lose the 10bit and end up with 8bit only. The bottleneck is the old ProRes decoder used in Windows (important: I am talking about Windows only) and used by Vegas.

No, I do not know another decoder/encoder that maintains the 10bit. Maybe the Catalyst prepare but only in the Mac world (but I am not familiar with the Mac world).

ProRes in Vegas is a worse thing in Win. The lumarange is decoded wrong and clipping can take place if the footage goes >235. And with my Shogun files I see that Vegas tends to crash with more the 20 files anyway.

Marco. wrote on 2/7/2016, 6:42 AM

"Also, are you familiar with a transcoder as an alternative to the TMPGEnc ver 5/6?"

I think Acrovid FootageStudio is a valuable encoder.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/7/2016, 6:52 AM

Marco, have they build in the 10bit workflow in the meantime in a complete way?

musicvid10 wrote on 2/7/2016, 7:03 AM

Quicktime libraries for Windows are crippled - some would say deliberately.

Marco. wrote on 2/7/2016, 8:18 AM

The current workflow within FootageStudio is designed that way, that FootageStudio uses either 8 bit or 16 bit processing and it automatically switches the processing dependend on input and output.
If you use 10 bit input and 10 bit output, it's designed to use 16 bit processing. They optimized the workflow somewhen during the last year.

Eagle Six wrote on 2/7/2016, 12:58 PM

Thanks Again Wolfgang for taking the time to share your broad knowledge and recommendations. I'm on a limited bandwidth connection, so will wait until next week to download the trail version of TMPGEnc and try it out.

Also Thanks to Musicvid10 and Johnny.

Marco, Thank You.....I do have the latest trial version of Footage Studio 4K. It appears that it does transcode the ProRes422HQ files to 10 bit visually lossless CineForm. At least that is what MediaInfo reports and that is the only means I have to determine if a file is 8 or 10 bits.

Best Regards.......George

astar wrote on 2/7/2016, 1:48 PM

You could also try Catalyst prepare, or Resolve to convert your camera media to Sony HDCAM-SR or SR-LITE depending on your quality modes. In resolve the codec is called Sony MPEG in an MXF format, and not by the marketing name HDCAM.

HDCAM-SR is 444, 422 and 10bit capable, and would be Sony's version of "Prores" out long before prores was a thing. HDCAM is also very optimized on the Vegas timeline.

For 4K material use XAVC-intra, sort of HDCAM 2.0.

Like Roy said you need to be in 32-bit FP Video levels at least to work 10-bit content. Your GPU GFLOPS pay off here since you are working floating point information, which the CPU+GPU OpenCL operation excels at vs the CPU alone. 32-bit Full mode is more for working in EXR level formats like RAW images.

You could also use FFMPEG to batch convert your masters, but the commands are intimidating to most.

Eagle Six wrote on 2/7/2016, 4:02 PM

Thank You astar for the helpful information. I have Resolve 12, but will have to spend some time cleaning up my system and doing a clean install, as I'm getting some decoder errors. Once I have Resolve stable I will try your recommendations.

Best Regards.....George