Yes this is what I figured, really.

I have been for years using MeGUI and x264 for encoding, but I am getting tired of the extra steps involved (either render out to a CineForm or frame serve it).

So I was thinking of just rendering right off of the time line, the MainConcept (yes it is very outdated now) is super slow, and the Sony AVC codec is better (I can actually use OpenCL if I use my onboard HD4600), but only single pass (I would like dual pass).

Out of habit I have always thrown an Nvidia card into my builds, never gave it much thought. Guess I should take a look at the AMD cards.

Cheers

I have been for years using MeGUI and x264 for encoding, but I am getting tired of the extra steps involved (either render out to a CineForm or frame serve it).

Why not try the "1-click" frameserve to Handbrake written by Marco. Works extremely well. If you use the latest version of Handbrake, you can also use Intel Quick Sync since you have the HD4600 onboard GPU. For my older system (HD4000), it renders almost twice as quickly when compared with a CPU-only render.

wwaag

[I]Out of habit I have always thrown an Nvidia card into my builds, never gave it much thought. Guess I should take a look at the AMD cards.
[/I]

Same here. If not Vegas and now 4K editing I wouldn't have changed. Anyways, I am glad I did.

And yes, try Marco's frame serving scripts, works really great and the results are so much better.

I will have a look at the Handbrake, but the real problem is rendering out multiple projects at once... if it is one an done then the MeGUI One Click is great. Wish Vegas can do background rendering (like FCPX), load a project, render and while that is rendering, load another... render etc.

I have tried Intel Quick Sync, but Vegas always spit a warning that I dont have Quick Sync on my system. Never really dug into to it any further.

I have tried Intel Quick Sync, but Vegas always spit a warning that I dont have Quick Sync on my system.

To use Quick Sync inside of Vegas, you must drive at least 1 of your displays with your Intel graphics. Otherwise, Vegas apparently doesn't "know" you have QS. I drive 1 display with the onboard graphics and the 2nd with an Nvidia card. In this manner, I can use the Nvidia GPU for effects processing and the intel GPU for rendering. This works well for 720-60P renders, but will not work (at least on my system) for 1080-60P renders. The Handbrake approach has no problem with 1080-60P renders using QS. Too bad, it doesn't work inside of Vegas.

wwaag

Yes I am aware that the onboard GPU needs to be connected in order to work, but even then I had the error.

I had an ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/Gen3 MB before and if I remember it correctly, the only way I got QS to work was selecting the onboard GPU as first GPU in the BIOS and install the Lucid software. It was very quirky, not very fast and I eventually gave up on it. It doesn't have anything to do with Vegas, it's how the whole QS is implemented on certain MBs.

It doesn't have anything to do with Vegas, it's how the whole QS is implemented on certain MBs.

If so, why would it work so well in Handbrake? I also believe that other encoders such as TMPGENc's Mastering Works also supports QS. As I recall, it was a PIA to initially set up. I tried the Lucid software and found it had no effect, so I uninstalled it. Granted, there are MB differences, but others have made it work well--unfortunately not Vegas.

wwaag

[I]As I recall, it was a PIA to initially set up.[/I]

That is exactly my point. I got it to work in Vegas but with i7-2600K's internal GPU it was just way too slow and easily outperformed by my GTX460 and 570 later on.
BTW, it worked fine if there was no discrete card in the system, slow but it worked without installing any additional software.

Probably why I didn't explore it any further :)

Well from spending the day reading, the MainConcept Encoder is old (as I already knew) and does not support CUDA with newer cards (or not even OpenCL perhaps). So no matter what I have for a GPU (unless it is an older circa 2011 GPU), the MainConcept encoder is going to work off my CPU only.

The Sony AVC encoder does not use CUDA (at least from what I can tell), only OpenCL - and I have not seen any performance gains from using OpenCL with the 750Ti - but I have read that Nvidia has poor OpenCL support.

Perhaps I should look at something like the Radeon R9 290 - which from what I read has great OpenCL support. That will help with timeline previews and encoding with the Sony AVC codec. But still would do nothing for helping with the MainConcept codec. Which is really too bad - as I like the 2 pass encoding directly from the time line.

Might have to stick with rendering intermediates and then encode in MeGUI for now.

Careful, the R9 290 isn't supported by MC AVC and Sony AVC. If you want to encode to any of those, you need the older hardware. Nevertheless, the R9 290 does a great job handling the OpenCL process for timeline performance and also when it comes to preparing frames for rendering. So even if you frame serve to Handbrake the R9 290 can help quite a bit.
If you have space and sufficient PCIe lanes in your system then plug in addition to the 750Ti a HD6970 or HD7590 in your system to get the best of both. These should be easy to get off eBay.

So even the Sony AVC via OpenCL does not support newer hardware? This could be the reason my 750Ti did not offer any performance gains with OpenCL enabled.

As for the MC AVC codec.... yeah - that one I am thinking I should give up on ;-) Seems that most hardware after 2011 is not supported.

[I]So even the Sony AVC via OpenCL does not support newer hardware?[/I]

Sad but true.

But, if you use codecs such XDCAM, Sony MFX, MPEG-2 you will find that the R9 290 really flies with it. Also third party plug-ins like BCC, NBFX, Titler Pro 3, Neatvideo all take full advantage of the R9 290's OpenCL capabilities. I also found that I can now preview 1080 60p, 32bit video levels only, projects in real time at Best/Full.

Also be warned that the R9 290 is not supported by TMPGEnc, either.

Well I do know from testing that the Sony AVC codec does support Intel's HD4600 GPU. There is a performance gain when using it over the CPU (mine is a i7 4770k).

Just to add to this...

I have done some more testing on the OpenCL using my HD4600 alone, and it appears that the Sony AVC encoder does not actually use 'OpenCL' per say. It looks like it is using Quick Sync Fast. When choosing that option or 'Use GPU' the speed is the same, and when looking at the resulting file with Media Info, it appears the results are the same in terms of bit rate etc. However, when encoding with 'CPU' the bitrate is not the same.

So I would suspect that with the Sony AVC codec when set to 'Use GPU' means use Quick Sync Fast, and not necessarily use OpenCL.

Merry Christmas!

To get Quick Sync to work you should select "Intel Quick Sync Video (speed)" or quality in the SONY AVC template, not "Use GPU".

I think they are one in the same. I can select either 'Use GPU' or 'Use Quick Sync Fast' and the speed and file results are exactly the same. But when I select 'Use CPU' the speed and the file results are different.

If I try to select 'Use Quick Sync Quality' I get an error saying it is unavailable.

In conclusion I think 'Use GPU' and 'Use Intel Quick Sync Fast' (when using a compatible Intel GPU) is the same.

If you get an error with the quality setting of Quick Sync then it isn't installed properly. I know it because I tinkered around with it for two days on my P8Z68 MB, got it to work somehow and once I rebooted it didn't work again. I also found that when it worked, the quality of rendered file wasn't very good when compared to a CPU render.

If you get an error with the quality setting of Quick Sync then it isn't installed properly.

Don't think its an installation issue. I recall reading in another thread somewhere, that Sony has acknowledged this to be a problem and that it would be fixed in a future update. You can use this option in Handbrake, although they call it something different. As I posted earlier, I cannot get 1080 60P to render, only 720 60P which has been a drawback until the latest Handbrake release.

wwaag

Here is the thread. http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=898257

and the message from Sony

Hi TERENCE,

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. The Intel Quick Sync Quality hang issue is known to development and they are looking into it for a future update of the software. At this time, it is recommended that you use the Speed option, or just CPU only. You will not see any quality issues if you choose one of those options.

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Travis G.
Customer Service
Sony Creative Software Inc
www.sonycreativesoftware.com

Ok, rendering is not possible with 750Ti (i don't mind), but what about timeline preview performace? Does OpenCl help here with this card? 1080/50p avchd files with dissolve at half resoluion should be smooth. I can buy this card or an RX 460, but i also like to use 3ds max, and 3d vision where nvidia cards are better.

thx