Harshly backlit (sun) from walls of windows causing really bad washout

Thomas-Monks wrote on 11/4/2021, 3:33 AM

Hi Folks,

I just shot a dog show in the worst possible lighting I can imagine... reasonable overhead lights BUT has solid walls of windows on sides allowing the sun to ruin my shoot. I'm running Vegas 16, FDR AX-700. Iris=Auto, ISO=Auto, Shutter Speed=350 Fixed.

Of course, this was a live sporting event and there is no way to recreate so my only hope is to somehow correct the footage.; I understand everything changes when I pan to follow the subject...so perhaps any solution would needto manually be ridden by me ?

Here's an idea: Something for video which works like an audio compressor / limiter. I set it at 80 IRE or whatever I think the brightest white in that shot should be (except for windows of course)...then makes everything in excess of 80 IRE equal to 80 IRE. Step 2 would be something brightness / contrast to pump it back up to the 100 IRE max. Better yet, the video compressor could actually over-compress to a 2:1 ratio, everythingover 80 IRE ???

Comment: I did try FILL LIGHT with not the greatest success. Perhaps it would work after getting rid of that terrible sun using a compressor type plug-in ?

Thanks,

Tom

Comments

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 4:20 AM

@Thomas-Monks - How does this look to you? Using ColorFast2 which employs MASK based on Levels & Sat for HIGHs, Meds and Shadows:

Before:

After:

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 4:27 AM

Oh my . .

Here's another two:

Before

After

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 4:30 AM

I meant to add, this would ALL be in real-time correction too, no need for "riding". CF2 is my GoTo corrector - It's Grazie-Proof 😉 .

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 4:40 AM

And the last sample. I use Neat Video to reduce that noise:

Before

After

Last changed by Grazie on 11/4/2021, 4:46 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Grazie

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Mindmatter wrote on 11/4/2021, 4:53 AM

There's a few things that could be said / tried here.
I personally sometimes just get over the physical reality of bright light overexposing, as it's the price you sometimes pay to expose the rest properly. Having said that, I mostly use log / gamma profiles on my Sony A7s like either cine 2 or 4 or S log. That gives me quite a bit of headroom to later roll off the highlights.
In Vegas, I then usually turn down the highlights using Colorfast 2. It's astonishing how much information is contained in the highlights using log profiles.

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RogerS wrote on 11/4/2021, 5:03 AM

Video isn't audio.

First I'd shoot for your subject with manual ISO, aperture and shutter and let the windows blow out.

For this footage you can use curves to brighten midtones while keeping shadows dark. The slope of the curve allows rolloff between the midtones and whites which is sort of like your audio analogy. You'd need keyframes for where the exposure radically changes.

Vegas doesn't have a native highlights/shadows feature to only affect those tones.

Grazie, can you show a screenshot of your settings in ColorFast 2? I don't see how to use it to create a luminance mask.

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 5:26 AM
Grazie, can you show a screenshot of your settings in ColorFast 2? I don't see how to use it to create a luminance mask.

@RogerS - ANother "word" for Luminance, is?

RogerS wrote on 11/4/2021, 5:32 AM

Brightness- using it to target highlights and shadows.

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 5:36 AM

Brightness- using it to target highlights and shadows.


@RogerS - Ah, righto! BRB . . .

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 5:38 AM

Tarah! This is for the last piccie.

RogerS wrote on 11/4/2021, 5:50 AM

Thanks Grazie, that makes it clearer.

So the adjustments are happening within highlights/midtones/shadows using level for brightness.

I thought that these settings were defining the mask and then output correction was doing the change but it didn't work like that.

So Vegas does have shadows fill/highlight recovery of sorts thanks to this NewBlue plugin. Good to know!

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 6:05 AM

I thought that these settings were defining the mask and then output correction was doing the change but it didn't work like that.

@RogerS - So, almost there: I CAN Define the Masks and/or I can go straight in and adjust the H, M, and Shads.

So:

1 - Define Masks

2 - Apply according to Maks - or not!

3 - Use this lot, to "balance" the output - luv it!:

Dexcon wrote on 11/4/2021, 6:18 AM

@RogerS  ... ColorFast 2 is my most used VFX on a project and has been for years - and previously with the original ColorFast release. In addition to the secondary Highlights, Midtones and Shadows options, I usually make initial color adjustments via the Primary Correction settings. As Grazie mentioned before, riding the highs / mids / shadows is not needed. CF2 does have a manually set mask function if needed, the only downside is that the masking frame only has 4 node points - it would be so much better if it had limitless nodes like in Vegas' native pan/crop. My main use of CF2 is to reduce overblown skies where even the blue in lightly overcast skies can be recovered that are otherwise blown out, and for playing with the Gamma (in primary correction) and Shadows level (secondary) to make the blacks look good.

You might want to give the trial version a go - https://newbluefx.com/products/filters/colorfast/

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RogerS wrote on 11/4/2021, 7:14 AM

@Dexcon Thanks, I used it for white balance but nothing else really as I didn't know what it could do.

Does it not currently come with Vegas? I have it working here so it must have been bundled at some point along with selective hue and the like which have been very helpful for me.

Dexcon wrote on 11/4/2021, 7:35 AM

Does it not currently come with Vegas?

@RogerS  ... I can't recall CF2 specifically being a bonus extra with Vegas Pro in recent years (that's not to say that it wasn't). CF2 is now part of NBFX's Filters 5 package (which maybe was a bonus extra with VP at some time), but NBFX have changed their packages over the years so its hard to recall. The VP bundle with CF may go back to Sony VP days - there were lots of NBFX 'bonus' extras back in Sony days as I recall - which possibly means that CF is the original release rather than the CF2 release (which is so much better). But then CF2 has been around for many years. But if you've got CF2 up and running in a current/recent version of Vegas Pro - explore, experiment and hopefully enjoy.

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Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 7:35 AM

@Dexcon Thanks, I used it for white balance but nothing else really as I didn't know what it could do.

@RogerS - Are you in for a shock! Don't overthink this stuff - I don't . .

I have it working here so it must have been bundled at some point along with selective hue and the like which have been very helpful for me.

@RogerS - Can you show what your CF2 GUI looks like?

RogerS wrote on 11/4/2021, 7:49 AM

Thanks both of you (apologies to the OP but maybe some of this is of use with how CF2 works).

Here's what it looks like on my system. The last version I recall having bundles with was VP 15, which I still have installed. But who knows- I just install Vegas and if things come along with it I don't really pay attention.

Grazie wrote on 11/4/2021, 8:04 AM

@RogerS - Good news is that it looks you’ve got enough there. Now, check out some tutorials and you’ll be astonished.

dxdy wrote on 11/4/2021, 8:35 AM

This is somewhat effective, but worth a try. I think it was Marco who originally posted it. I have had great success with it when I overexposed the scene, as opposed to the harsh backlight in this example.

Apply Invert Fx, Color Corrector, and Invert again to the event.

In color corrector, adjust the Gamma. Working with Grazie's "before" image, I set the gamma to 0.612

Then I added Brightness and Contrast Fx, and set Contrast to 0.197, and Contrast Center to 0.850

The colors on the people's clothing are better. It did blow out the windows.

Thomas-Monks wrote on 11/4/2021, 10:24 AM

Hey guys...I'm on today's am show. Thank you all for the big time help. When i get back to the hotel i will try and wrap my brain around these ! Good news today is overcast 🤩 i will send updates asap after trying with results.

Photo_G wrote on 11/4/2021, 7:04 PM

If you grabbed the Essentials 5 Volume 3 freebie recently offered by NB, the Dual Booster module may also be helpful to adjust the lightest and darkest regions of the clip.

Thomas-Monks wrote on 11/5/2021, 12:08 PM

Hi everybody... the INVERT thing worked well last night... next I will try the dual booster. Today i will shoot on manual to at least get a good base image. Yep its totally necessary to save the video as yesterday our humble dog beat the #1 best yorkshire terrier in the USA...OMG ya i know focus im waiting for other stills to come!!!

Photo_G wrote on 11/5/2021, 1:51 PM

heh...Woofstock...cool.. Congrats! 👍 👋

Last changed by Photo_G on 11/5/2021, 1:53 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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diverG wrote on 11/5/2021, 2:57 PM

I seem to recall an old post from creative cow using FX chain something like 'invert, levels, invert'. I'm certain of lnvert but not absolutely sure of the middle effect. The author gave a good explanation of the maths involed in why it works. Anyone with a good memory. VP9>12 era

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