HD to Blu-RAy then DVD

sging1 wrote on 1/9/2014, 9:35 AM
I have done many searches on this forum and the web to try and find out the correct workflow for creating Blu-Ray and DVD as part of the same workflow using Sony Vegas 12 pro and DVD architect 6.

I film weddings and have done since the 80’s off and on. I have recently made the decision to supply the initial three copies in Blu-Ray as standard but also to give one copy on DVD.
We use good HD cameras as in the Panasonic AG-HC160’s that shoot in AVCHD and I hate then supplying the main copies in standard definition DVD and reducing the quality.

I use a lot of slow motion, so I film in 1080/50p AVCHD.

The Blu-Rays seem to produce in fantastic clarity but I really don’t know how to use Vegas and DVDA to produce the DVD in the best quality.

In my last software, Power Director Pro 12, I authored the Blu-Ray disk and menu’s with the same settings as the source file and then produced the Blu-Ray disk, I then just changed it to DVD on the settings and produced the DVD disk with the same setup and this gave very good quality discs in both formats.

After rendering to the Blu-Ray template in Vegas (after putting up the bit rate to 22mbps), I recently did the same in DVDA. Although the Blu-Ray was good I wasn’t too impressed with the DVD quality and the menu text was blocky on my custom menu and video background.

I tried rendering to MPEG-2 in Vegas first with the thought of going to the extra trouble of creating a second menu set up in DVDA but the quality of the render from the AVCHD source footage to MPEG2 was not good either. It also seemed to have lower field first in the template and I thought it had to be higher field first for DVD but I don’t think that’s the issue as I tried both.

I don’t want to go to the trouble of creating two custom menus, one for the Blu-Ray discs and one for the DVD discs but I want the best quality I can get on DVD for my clients.

I have seen advice on constant bit rate over variable but the more I read the more I am confused.

Vegas and DVDA have been around a long time so I am hoping someone must have a good workflow that I, and apparently a lot of others keep asking about.

Many thanks.

Comments

Arthur.S wrote on 1/9/2014, 11:16 AM
I do exactly the same as yourself for weddings. Firstly, DON'T LET DVDA do the rendering! Render a second MPEG-2 file for DVD using Vegas, then use the 'replace file' dialogue in DVDA to swap it over from the BD version. Change the properties in DVDA to DVD, and you should be good to go. I have to say that Vegas isn't the greatest at resizing down from full HD, but a LOT better than DVDA! I now frameserve out of Vegas to TMPGEnc Video mastering works for the SD file.

Edit: Get rid of DVDA 6. It's a dog. Unless you want 3D, stick to 5.2.
willqen wrote on 1/9/2014, 12:07 PM
Arthur S.,

I'm curious. Why do you think DVDA 6.0 is a dog versus 5.2?

I just recently upgraded to 6.0 and haven't used that version much yet.

I've had & used DVDA for years now, including version 5.2.

Always it's done the job for me except of course when it needed replicating for large projects, wasn't designed for that.

I'm just wondering if I need to change back to 5.2 for my workflow and why.

Thanks,

Will
Arthur.S wrote on 1/9/2014, 1:20 PM
It's an 'upgrade' that many have had problems with. Missing sound if .Wav used etc. Like many, I had problems even getting it to start originally. As there's literally nothing in it that 5.2 hasn't got - apart from 3D, I've gone back to the ever dependable 5.2. Sony have never released another build of 6 to rectify the problems. Do a search in the DVDA forum.
pilsburypie wrote on 1/9/2014, 1:26 PM
I too have this exact same issue but in an amateur setting. I record 1080 50p on my Panasonic SD900, render 1080 50p files for my PS£ which produces amazing IQ. I then render to 1080 50i for blu ray burning for my parents which again is smashing quality. For other less technologically advanced family members I have to produce SD DVDs.

I used to have a Panasonic GS500 SD camera which recorded to mini DV tapes (avi). This footage rendered out pretty nicely (for my uses) but I have never been able to get as good quality from my newer HD camera on the SD front. I have tried both mpg2 renders in Vegas with DVD templates in DVDA and just letting DVDA do the conversion from the 1080 50p files but I see little difference between the 2. Text is jagged and there are artifacts all over the place in the footage. I have read and doone research on the subject but fail to get the result I used to on my SD camera.

Interested in the responses.
willqen wrote on 1/9/2014, 3:21 PM
Thanks Guys.

I appreciate you all letting me know even though I should have looked this up myself !!

Thanks again.

Back to 5.2 .....

Will
Ken Brits wrote on 1/13/2014, 11:56 AM
Hi Arthur. I was reading through your response and I am wondering what you use to frameserve to TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works? A while ago before moving to Vegas, I used to edit in Ulead MSPro and frameserve to TMPGEnc.DVD Source Creator which gave me really good quality going from DV to mpeg. I have rendered to m2ts out of Vegas and then converted to mpeg in TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5, but the quality just isn't there. So far the best I can get is using the Main Concept Program Stream PAL Widescreen Template so I would be interested to see if there is a differece frameserving to TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5
Arthur.S wrote on 1/13/2014, 1:26 PM
http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/

I render to a progressive MPEG-2 file Ken. Also, in the filters set Luminence to 2 and Contrast to 42. That tip came from Nick Hope. Have a read through this thread.
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=801384

Nothing is going to be as good as the original HD file though.
Ken Brits wrote on 1/14/2014, 12:13 PM
Thanks Arthur. I am going to check out the debugmode frameserver and I will also read up as you suggest. I agree that the original HD file is always best, but some clients still want DVD's because most times they still only have a DVD player. (This is Africa) I have a client who's wedding was just on 3 hours long. He is from The Congo and has a Bluray player. The family back in the Congo however only have DVD players. So I will have to fit it on 3 disc's when I create the DVD's. Thanks again
Arthur.S wrote on 1/14/2014, 1:32 PM
You would get 3hrs at good quality on a dual layer disc Ken. I use these:
http://www.rivieramultimedia.co.uk/falcon-media-dvdr-dual-layer-smart-guard-glossy-inkjet-printable-c2x11284493

Never had a coaster with them, and a fantastic (tough) printable surface. The best I've personally tried. (including Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden)
Ken Brits wrote on 1/18/2014, 2:14 PM
Hi. Been a bit busy which is why I have taken long to respond. I am in South Africa and in Africa and Dual Layer is a bit "hit and miss" with the players here. My gripe was the rendering time as well as having to create new menus, but I have made the single layer discs for the client and will be handing over in the morning. I took your advice and installed Debugmode as a frame server, but using TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works resulted in video that looked washed out and bad jittering when panning. I found that it was taking too much fiddling to get a good end result, so I used my good old faithful TMPGEnc DVD Source Creator and the results are perfect. Many thanks
dxdy wrote on 1/18/2014, 9:06 PM
I deal with the "washed out" look of a Vegas -> Debug Frameserver -> TMPGENC Mastering Works workflow by adding a sRGB to cRGB levels fx to the video output:

On Video Preview window, click the Video Output fx button (third from the left), select Sony, Utility, Sony Levels, Add, then select Studio RGB to Computer RGB from the preset pulldown. Makes a huge difference.

Some people like to add a zero value Gaussian Blur before the levels fx.
set wrote on 1/18/2014, 9:27 PM
I always prepare these all from Sony Vegas, so having multiple renders.
1. SonyAVC>Blu-ray templates
2. MPEG2>DVD templates
3. Dolby AC3 Pro - the same to both DVD and BD
(aided with VASST Ultimate S Pro Render Batch tool)

About DVDA6 vs 5.2:
After update this, most of my projects only outputs to dvd, so DVDA6 doesn't have any issue, however after authoring BD last week (for the first time), I finally can see the trouble, and requires me to close and restart DVDA6 several times.

Set
Ken Brits wrote on 1/18/2014, 11:56 PM
Hi. I did play around with the settings as suggested by Arthur.S but I was not happy. I also found the quality dropped when panning, Judder / Shaking or whatever you want to call it. However encoding with TMPGEnc DVD Source Creator, there is none of that, no settings to change and as I said, the results are perfect. Best USD 29 that I have ever spent
TeetimeNC wrote on 1/19/2014, 7:11 AM
>However encoding with TMPGEnc DVD Source Creator, there is none of that, no settings to change and as I said, the results are perfect. Best USD 29 that I have ever spent

As near as I can tell TMPGEnc DVD Source Creator's replacement is $99 now. Do you know where I can get the one you have?

/jerry
Ken Brits wrote on 1/19/2014, 1:07 PM
Sorry, I bought it about 7 or 8 years ago and it was a special deal when I bought DVD Lab (Mediachance), which incidently was the worst USD 99 I ever spent.
Ken Brits wrote on 1/19/2014, 1:15 PM
Incidently, I have DVD Source Creator 2, I never knew that it still continued. Oh, and the interface is different in Version 4, which looks more like TMPGEnc 4 Xpress. DVD Source Creator 2 has a very basic interface
Arthur.S wrote on 1/19/2014, 1:37 PM
For the juddering, I'd guess you need to tweak some settings in the TVMW5 template Ken. The 'washed out' look is easy to get rid of as above.
Ken Brits wrote on 1/19/2014, 1:53 PM
Thanks but I am happy to use DVD Source Creator for this, the colour and quality for me is perfect. Don't wan't to waste time tweaking.
Arthur.S wrote on 1/20/2014, 9:31 AM
How are you frameserving to it Ken?
Ken Brits wrote on 2/10/2014, 12:34 PM
Hi. Wow! Time passes and I have been busy. Sorry for the delay in responding. I am usingDebugmode as you suggested.
MikeLV wrote on 3/7/2014, 6:15 PM
Are TMPGEnc products the best to convert 1080P AVCHD video into DVD spec. MPEG2 video?
Ken Brits wrote on 3/8/2014, 5:30 AM
Hi MikeLV. I have been using TMPGEnc for about 10 years now and I don't think there is a better encoder for the price.
MikeLV wrote on 8/10/2016, 2:06 PM
I'm trying out this TMPGEnc, by frameserving from Vegas and unless I'm doing something wrong, I don't see any difference in quality of the resultant MPEG2 file between the two programs. The picture is still very soft just like in Vegas. Any special settings you employ in either program to get good results with TMPGEnc?