HDV scene detection not working reliably.

like2175 wrote on 3/9/2008, 6:03 AM
DV scene detection works fine, however when I capture HDV from my Sony HDR-HC5E the scene detection seems to be off by a tiny amount, but just enough so that you get a brief glimpse of the next scene on the end of each scene.

It means that dragging all the .m2t files onto a timeline results in a movie that flickers at each scene change (cut). I've been onto Sony support, but have had no luck with them.

If I turn off scene detection and capture to a single .m2t file, then use HDVSplit to split the file I still get the problem.

1. Is anyone else experiencing problems with HD scene detection?

2. Is it a problem associated with the .m2t file format - or have a got a broken camera?

I'd love to hear people's experiences with HDV editing, in particular anyone editing hdv from a sony hdr-hc5e.

Comments

Himanshu wrote on 3/9/2008, 10:04 AM
My cam is an HC3 and I haven't had such an issue with HDV capture/usage, however I do recall seeing it once with SD video. Can't remember what I did at that time, but it was a really rare occurrence and I haven't had a problem since.

Out of curiosity - are you using HD marked tapes, or regular MiniDV tapes?

Do you get any dropped frames during capture?

If you repeat capture of the same tape, do you see the same problem again?

Since you verified that HDVSplit results are the same, it implies that the issues is in the captured clip (or perhaps a codec issue on your system?)
like2175 wrote on 3/9/2008, 2:40 PM
In answer to your questions:

I'm using regular miniDV tapes

I see no dropouts at all if I capture the footage without scene detection turned on - it flows beautifully.

If I repeat capture I get the same results. It seems to be that I get 3 frames of the next scene on the end of each scene.

I experienced the issues on my old XP machine and so I rebuilt the computer with a fresh install of Vista... same results - that would tend to rule out anything on my PC?

I cannot understand what can be causing the problem... but with 3 extra frames on the end of every frame it turns editing into a nightmare.

What I could do with is something to remove the last 3 frames of every file...
Himanshu wrote on 3/9/2008, 6:05 PM
Interesting - replacing the OS for such an issue is pretty drastic! Can you post a short clip (without scene detection) and then the split versions as well on the net somewhere to see if others can replicate?

Try to shut down all unnecessary services during capture - virus checkers, iPod serivce (if using), bluetooth (if using), SQL servers etc. Go to administrative tools > services and shut off whatever you don't need (not sure where this is in Vista)

I would definitely try an HDV tape - personally I have used that for all my recordings except for one experimental use of regular MiniDV tapes.

Next I would try to capture a different tape to see if the same issue is reproducible. Are you using the Sony capture software?

Finally don't rule out the basics - which version of the software do you have? Latest patch installed? Latest version of DirectX installed?
Tim L wrote on 3/9/2008, 6:26 PM
I don't have any personal experience with any of this, but I know people over on the Vegas Pro forum have reported similar problems -- HDV clips with scene detection captured by Vegas end up with a few frames of the next (or previous?) clip at the end.

So while I don't have a solution for you, at least you know you aren't alone. You might try searching for more info over on the Vegas Pro forum.

Tim L
Eugenia wrote on 3/9/2008, 7:29 PM
There is nothing you can do. The scene detection/frames bug is a known one. It exists on Pro too. Not fixed yet.
Himanshu wrote on 3/9/2008, 8:20 PM
So what's the wisdom on this...how come I'm able to dodge this issue, whereas others are seeing it (as stated above). Is it system configuration related? Anyone have links to the threads in the Pro forum?
Eugenia wrote on 3/9/2008, 10:45 PM
It is a very common bug. Maybe Sony makes it work well with Sony HDV cams. But with Canon ones it just doesn't. There are 2.5 frames at the end of each scene that belong to the next scene. it's a known, acknowledged by Sony, bug. Nothing you can do, but write them an email and ask them to fix it.
Himanshu wrote on 3/10/2008, 1:34 PM
Eugenia,

Let me acknowledge what you said that it this may be a known issue. Once we get past that, my attempt with my questions was to try to find the trigger and see if that can be avoided, since not everyone (well, at least not me) experiences this.

I'm using a Sony HDR-HC3 (apparent with no issues) and the OP is also using a Sony HDV cam that does have the problem, so it's not as simple as camera manufacturer.

I will examine a few of my clips closely tonight. I would like to see a couple of faulty clips if someone has them.

PS: Searching on Vegas-Video forums I found only two threads that seemed relevant: Thread 1, and Thread 2.. By reading those I see a lot of mixed responses - works for some works, and not for others. No one has posted any concrete information about a support case registered with Sony...maybe it's time someone who can replicate the issue to report it and try to get an answer from them & post it here.
Kahuna wrote on 6/21/2008, 4:00 PM
I just wanted to chime in at this late date. Although I have HDR-HC3, I've been recording in SD mode till recently. My most recent capture of HD (from Sony HD tape) onto both Vegas Pro 8 Trail software and my licensed VMS-P8 produces the same results as mentioned above. Even though I end up editing each and every clip I insert into my project, the presence of these residual frames is annoying to say the least!
Eugenia wrote on 6/21/2008, 4:40 PM
No, there is nothing you can do to avoid the bug. Instead of spending time trying to find more info, simply do an angry call to Sony about it. This is an 100% reproducible bug, and they know it since over a year ago. It has been bugging a lot of users, as there are many posts about it online. And still they haven't fixed it.

If they don't fix it, and it bothers you, buy another application. That's the kind of response any company would understand.

Personally, it doesn't bother me too much as I always edit my clips. And there's worse: The Pro version of Vegas has a bug that cuts off to a new scene every 2 seconds when used with some Canon XH-A1 cameras. Now, that's way more annoying than the HDV bug. And even that bug, apparently easily reproducible too, still haven't been fixed either.
Kahuna wrote on 6/21/2008, 9:29 PM
I won't lose too much sleep over it :-)