Thanks Serena.They don't accept Mpeg2 do they? I thought it had to be DivX. Or if you mean using Mpeg2 as an intermediate, then how to convert the Mpeg2 to DivX?

Yes, as an intermediate. Their converter will turn it into DIVX. It's a while ago that I put up a clip, but that's what I believe I did. However if that won't work for you I'll go back over my files to sort out what I actually did.

Hadn't thought of MPEG2 so I'll try it with a nice high bitrate. Everything else failing at the moment so I've got nothing to lose.

Hmm... DivX converter asks me to purchase an MPEG2/DVD plugin. And Dr DivX crashes.

Using a 10,000kbps MPEG2 encoded in Procoder 2.

MPEG2 as an intermediate seems a bit clumsy to be honest. Anyone had success with any sort of AVI as an intermediate?

Not sure if this method would be good for Stage6, but I had previously found an article for encoding to PhotoJPG for intermediate uploading to YouTube. Read the article, if anything, it may offer some other ways of thinking about how to approach these kinds of issues.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/youtube_compressor_gary.htmlEncoding for YouTube using PhotoJPG[/link]

Nick, I did use the mpeg2 as an intermediate and had no trouble with the conversion (although I did have to repeat to get the aspect ratio right). Even though I was using the trial version it didn't ask for an extra mpeg plugin. You can render to HD mpeg if you really want to encode at HD resolution, but that doesn't seem to be your intention. If you're posting on Stage6 most viewers will be looking at a very small screen.

EDIT: I used Vegas to render to mpeg; any reason you avoided that?

On my screen 1280x1024 screen Stage6 is showing videos at over 700px wide, so it's not that small.

I'm trying to encode at 768 x 432 which is bigger than their display window by a little and significantly bigger than the 480px wide that I have as Flash Videos on my site and also on Google Video (download version, not streamed). I want to use Stage6 for the high quality versions for people with enough bandwidth.

I didn't use Vegas simply because I'm much more used to making MPEG2 files with Procoder. Actually I normally use CCE Basic but it won't support anything over 720 wide. I've found Vegas/Main Concept MPEG2 files to be softer but I'll give it a go to see if it makes a difference.

Serena do you remember if you used the little DivX converter that you drag files on to or did you use Dr DivX? Or something else?

Anyone successfully going to DivX via an intermediate AVI file?

Nick, I used the converter that comes with DivX Pro. If you wish you can see the http://stage6.divx.com/user/StudioAlnitak/video/1112578/Champange-&-Boiling-Mudexample[/link] I put up, but I don't promote that as good work (shot on holiday).

Took a while to download on a Thailand connection but I enjoyed that and the encode looks pretty good to me.

Download time is a real issue if you want people to view and, as you experienced, a high res video takes too long. Even the lower res versions I put up take too long unless people are really interested. And there is little visual difference between the hi-res and the lower I used. DivX does quite a good job even on "portable devices" resolution. The shorts I put up are unsuited to the medium; unless you capture attention immediately people won't wait for the download to complete. Except when they have a special interest or they know that it will be worth the wait. That's exactly how I look at posted videos, my general expectation being that it will not be worth the wait. I'll add to that, the worse the production quality the shorter is my patience.

I'm really thinking of it mainly as a place to go and get a higher quality version if someone enjoyed the 480x270 Flash version on my own site. But you never know, if the Stage6 community grows it might be a useful place to attract new viewers.

That could work, Nick. They would be going to Stage6 knowing it will be worth the wait.

My standard way to work is to encode a 960x540 Pegasys mjpeg master and use that for any internet encode: Flash, Divx, Apple Mp4, etc. 960x540 is exactly one field of a 1080i image, and as good as you can get without interpolation. The Pegasys mjpeg codec reads beautifully by all the convertors: Divx, On2, Quicktime pro, etc. It looks great, is a reasonable size, and quite well worth it's price of $28.

Thanks Laurence! I was wondering how you ended up doing it.

Are you using DivX Converter, Dr DivX, VirtualDub or Vegas to encode from Pegasus to DivX?

And are you actually uploading a full 960x540 to Stage6? Do you have any examples on Stage6?

Cheers

OK, so I've finally got a decent workflow established without purchasing the Pegasus MJPEG codec and I'm pretty happy with the results.

I suspect Stage6 might have recently relaxed their specs of exactly what formats you can upload.

You'll need VirtualDub, Xvid video encoder and Lame MP3 encoder all downloaded and installed.

1. Render a Cineform AVI out of Vegas with following custom template:

Video rendering quality: Best
Custom frame size: 960x540
Frame rate: 25fps
Field order: None (progressive scan)
Video format: Cineform HD Codec V2.5 (Edit: install NEO Player to get V3.1)
Interleave every 0.250 seconds
Create an OpenDML compatible file
Audio format: PCM Uncompressed
Sample rate: 44,100 Hz
Bit depth: 16
Channels: Stereo

And making sure the following are set in the Vegas project properties:

Full-resolution rendering quailty: Best
Motion blur type: Gaussian
Deinterlace method: Blend fields

2. Encode with Xvid as the video compressor in VirtualDub:

VIDEO COMPRESSION:
Video Compressor: XviD MPEG-4 Codec
Encoding type: Single pass
Target bitrate: 2000 kbps
FourCC used (from "Other Options:): DX50 (I think ]this is important!)
Default settings for the rest

AUDIO COMPRESSION:
Lame MP3, 44100 Hz, 128kbps CBR, Stereo

It would also be possible to deinterlace (say with the "smart deinterlace" filter) and resize in VirtualDub rather than Vegas. I don't think it makes much difference whether you do this in Vegas or VirtualDub.

It might also help to do two passes in Xvid. Haven't tried that.

Also I tried SonyYUV instead of Cineform for the intermediate AVI but the result from Xvid was screwed up. I also tried uncompressed and HuffYUV but I got various problems which are probably just related to the sheer file size.

You can see the results of the first couple of videos here on Stage6. You'll need to install the DivX web player to view them. I reckon the quality is pretty good for the file size.

Edit: I'm now encoding at 3000kbps as 2000kbps was a bit soft and blocky. They are huge files but hopefully worth the wait.

I never had any luck making a Cineform 960x540 avi. I wanted to but I couldn't. Since you can, I will try again.

As far as the deinterlacing goes, the whole point of using the 960x540 dimensions is so that you can drop a complete field which leaves you with one absolutely true progressive image. I've been doing this in Virtualdub using the deinterlace filter with the "drop every second line" option.

Do you get better results using the Xvid codec than the DivX codec from VirtualDub? I can encode DivX from VirtualDub, but I feel that it never looks quite as good as the DivX encoder does.

Oh I see, yes dropping every second field would be a better deinterlacing method than blending fields. I didn't know that could be done and I will try it next time.

Why do you want to try again to make 960x540 Cineform AVIs? Surely then you won't be able to use the field-dropping deinterlace method? Or do you mean somehow rendering a Cineform AVI out of VirtualDub after the deinterlacing rather than straight out of Vegas?

Never had much luck with DivX encoding at all. But I've been using Xvid in VirtualDub for ages to make material for Google Video and YouTube, so I was more comfortable with the simple interface and method. I should try DivX again. Are you using the little DivX Converter that you drag and drop files onto?

Yeah I was talking about rendering the 960x540 video from VirtualDub rather than Vegas.

I get my best DivX results using the litte DivX Converter that you drag and drop files into, but it doesn't understand Cineform. It doesn't understand m2t, Huffy or Lagaryth either. I was using uncompressed, but the file sizes are just so darned big. That's why I was using the high quality MJPEG encodes.

Not only that, but Quicktime Pro and On2 work really well from the Pegasys MJPEG codec too. I find that if I do an MJPEG 960x540 render out of Virtualdub with one field dropped and the 1440 width scaled with a lancos 3 resize, I get an extremely good progressive image with all real pixels and no interpolation. At high quality, I can't see any difference between that and uncompressed. It's a whole lot smaller though and it converts reliably with all the different format convertors. Lately that is my starting point for anything going out on the web.

Thanks Laurance.

> Yeah I was talking about rendering the 960x540 video from VirtualDub rather than Vegas.

But if the DivX Converter won't accept a Cineform AVI, what's the point? And anyway I'm not licensed to encode to Cineform out of VirtualDub (I guess one needs to buy NEO to do that?). Looks like Pegasus MJPEG would be just about the only workable solution to go from VirtualDub to the DivX Converter.

So just to confirm, what are you feeding to VirtualDub? A Cineform 1080x1440 (interlaced) rendered out of Vegas?

Frameserving to VirtualDub with the Debugmode Frameserver should work too, and that would uncompressed but without the giant intermediate file (wouldn't it?).

Are you're chosing "Discard field 2" in the VirtualDub deinterlacer?

Will report back later with some test results.

DivX Converter and Dr DivX appear to force you use 960 x 544 (multiples of 16). Wouldn't the resampling from 540 to 544 lines screw up the good work done in the deinterlacing and resizing process?

I forgot to mention that. If you use the VDub Lancos 3 resize you can do that tiny resize without losing any noticable quality. It doesn't screw up the odd line dropping resize because that is a separate VDub filter step. That or you can just add two black lines each at the top and bottom. Either way looks the same to my aging eyes.

The Pegasys MJPEG codec is really useful for other things as well. I have started using it for Gearshift proxies (and have started http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=533282&Replies=2this thread[/link] about that). It works wonderfully well for this. It is well worth the $28 it costs.

Great idea Laurence re the proxies.

Are you're chosing "Discard field 2" in the VirtualDub deinterlacer?