Comments

Yoyodyne wrote on 4/12/2007, 4:01 PM
From my personal experience you can play 30p HDV stuff shot on the JVC 100/110 in the Sony HDV deck, you just can't capture it via firewire. I don't think the 24p stuff works at all. I would LOVE for someone to come out with a universal deck for the all the flavors of HDV.
farss wrote on 4/12/2007, 4:10 PM
You can add my name to the list of people wishing for the same thing.
What I don't get is that HDV is just a data stream and the deck doesn't really need to understand what's on the tape apart from decoding it for the analogue outputs. So it should be possible to build a deck that simply transfers the data to our HDDs and then our software deals with it.

Bob.
Avanti wrote on 4/12/2007, 4:33 PM
If you can't capture it via firewire, how do you capture it?
BarryGreen wrote on 4/12/2007, 5:50 PM
In a JVC deck. Or via an analog capture card.


Here's the breakdown: HDV comes in many different flavors, from different manufacturers. It's usually summed up as "HDV1" (for 720p) and "HDV2" for 1080, but it's actually much more complex than just saying "HDV1" or "HDV2".

HDV 720p: this is only supported by JVC. Only JVC makes 720p HDV. Only JVC equipment supports 720p HDV. And JVC makes three different flavors of 720p HDV, which means that depending on what mode you shot in, you'll have varying success playing that footage back.

The original JVC equipment supported 30p, and that's it. The "second generation" added 24p. First-gen equipment (like the HD1 and HD10) cannot play second-gen 24P footage, although it can play 30P. Then there's the third generation, the HD200 series, which adds 60p. I don't know for sure, but I doubt first generation JVC gear can play third-gen (60p) footage, I suspect second-gen gear could though.

JVC first-gen gear can transport a 24p data stream across firewire, but cannot display it. A first-gen JVC deck or camera can be used to digitize second-gen footage, but you can't see what you're doing on a monitor because that first-gen gear can't "play" that second-gen footage. (basically the exact opposite of how Sony gear works with first-gen footage, where the Sony can play it but not transport it).

Canon equipment will not play 720p footage at all. Sony equipment can display first-gen 30P footage, but will not transport it over the firewire for digitizing. So basically, if you want to work with 720P HDV, you're going to need to get a JVC second-gen deck. Presumably the second-gen will play 3rd-gen footage, but again I don't know.

HDV 1080i: This is supported by Sony and Canon, but not by JVC. 1080/50i and 1080/60i footage can be played back in Sony decks, Sony camcorders, and Canon camcorders, but the tapes will not register at all in a JVC camera or deck.

HDV 1080/24F and 1080/30F: This is a proprietary Canon format. 1080/24F and 1080/30F cannot be played back on any Sony equipment, it's completely incompatible with all Sony gear and all JVC gear. The only way to play 1080/24F or 1080/30F is from a Canon camcorder. The transport stream on the tape is actually 24 progressive frames, or 30 progressive frames. It is *not* embedded with pulldown into a 60i stream, it's actually progressive. It's Canon's unique proprietary format. And since Canon doesn't make decks, no deck can play it. Only a Canon camcorder can.

HDV 1080/24P: Okay, here's where it starts to get confusing. Both Canon and Sony support 1080/24P. But neither is recorded as 24P, it's recorded as 60i (24P with 2:3 pulldown spread across 60 interlaced fields). Because of this, it's compatible with all 60i decks. But 1080/24P is not compatible with 1080/24F. And Canon makes 1080/24P (with the HV20) and 24F (with the XLH1, XHA1 and XHG1).

Simple summation: there are three to-some-degree-or-other-incompatible formats out there that all bear the name "HDV". Each manufacturer's format is largely proprietary to that manufacturer, with some overlap (being that 720/30p can be displayed but not digitized on a Sony deck, and 1080/60i is intercompatible between Sony and Canon).

Avanti wrote on 4/13/2007, 10:43 AM
Wheeeeew thanks.

So let's see if I get this right.
"HDV 1080i: This is supported by Sony and Canon, but not by JVC. 1080/50i and 1080/60i footage can be played back in Sony decks, Sony camcorders, and Canon camcorders, but the tapes will not register at all in a JVC camera or deck."

As long as your shooting 1080/50i or 1080/60i with a Sony or Canon camera, you can play & capture via firewire with either camera. JVC is out on its own.

Can you also see it and edit both with Vegas if HDV was shot with the "other" brand camera?

Thanks again.