A few months back I ran some tests with generic TDK miniDV tape, purchased from Costco for, I think, $18 for an 8-pack. I recorded 63 minutes of continuous video on each tape, then captured it into the PC via HDVSplit, which has the ability to flag dropouts. I found 2 tapes out of 40 had a dropout that resulted in a 1/2 second freeze.

I have no idea how much better the dropout rate would be for premium tape. I am reasonably comfortable with using pretested cheap tapes, though it means more work (an hour to record, an hour to capture, plus wear on the camera). If I can find a decent bulk price on premium tape, I'll probably go that route.

I always use the HDV tape. Insurance. And tape seems so cheap (remember I used to shoot 16mm) that the cost isn't an issue. However farss reports no problems with using DV tapes similar discussion.

We use Sony's DMV63HD (the one "1-tiny-step-removed" from their "top-of-the-line" Digital Master). No dropouts ever. We shoot on Z1U's and chose this tape because it claims a higher S/N ratio than the next level down. We think that's important. We pay $9/tape. Compared to our huge stock of JVC M-DV603HT DV tape (which has proved very reliable in DV cams) for which we paid $3/tape the Sony tape appears to be an extravagance. But 20 tapes to capture all the footage that gets distilled to a 1hr30min movie is under $200. So we are paying a $140 S/N insurance policy. We pay more than that for Worker's Comp or Unemployment Comp. FAR more than that for G/L insurance.

I use HDV tapes but I buy the less expensive Sony DVM-63HD that are $10.29 USD at B&H instead of the Sony PHDVM-62DM DVCAM Master tapes which are twice the price at B&H ($19.96) but I’ve seen them for $16 everywhere else. I did try the regular Sony DVM-60EX Excellence tapes ($6.99) but I did experience one dropout and each dropout is ½ minute so they are not fun to cover up when they are in the middle of something important. IMHO, it’s best to charge the customer a bit more and buy the better tapes.

~jr

we use sony DV tapes in 2 z1 cams,, never had a single dropout, but .... who knows what the next shoot will bring.

If you study Sony's published data on their "HDV" tape stock you'll see that it really only gives a benefit after multiple passes over the heads. If you shuttle camera tapes backwards and forwards a lot then yes, you really should spend the extra dollars. But not many people do that, the tape goes over the heads twice, once to record and once to capture. The better S/N ratio has no effect on digital recordings, unless the S/N ratio becomes so bad that ones and noughts get mixed up and that takes fairly hard to achieve.

However I do have to agree with what Spot and others have said, if the footage is valuable / cost a bundle to shoot why not have all the insurance you can get. Even if something still goes wrong you have the comfort of knowing you took all the precautions, it's one less niggling "if only" thought gnawing away in the back of your head.

I'd add the "don't mix tape brands" advice in as well. I don't know the truth of that advice, could well be a total myth these days. Question really isn't is it true or not but rather how much are you prepared to loose to find out.

Bob.

You get zero results when you google "HDV/AMEII", add some spaces and all I find is reference to the Sony Digital Master PHDVM-63D. That's what I've bought for my new A1U $155 for a case of ten shipping included off eBay. The projects I'm working on are for my business, that is cheap insurance.
Konrad

i fail to see how spending 15 or 20 dollars a tape is insurance,, but if it makes ya feel better cool, but i have shot at least 50 tapes in HDV and have 0 drops on 5 dollar sony DV tape,, anyone that thinks you are protected from dropouts by purchasing more expensive tape stock, is sadly mistaken , it aint insurance, no one is going to restage a shot ,,,IMHO

and who uses tape anyway,, thought everyone was using some sort of hard drive gizmo :)

Most erudite.

I've used both the red/black Sony and the high-mid level 63 Sony quasi-semi pro. Not the super Pro that Spot talks about. More hobbiest than for business.

Switched from the red/black standard Sony to the mid-level simply to avoid any formulation reaction on the heads. 3x more $, less worry.

I've never had a dropout on either.

I could write a long post about how reliable HDD recording is and that's before you think about HDDs sufferering head crashes.
You can drop a tape, heck you can even snap it, smash the case, do all sorts of horrid things to it, we've even run tapes through a bulk eraser several times and still you can get video back off it.
Not that recording to HDD isn't a very good idea, in many ways much better than tape but reliable, I think not.

Anyway, just off to the local Roland guys, they think they can recover my lost file from the HDD. Even if they fail they sure get my vote for customer service. How often to you fill in a support request form and get an answer in 10 minutes?

Bob.

............Most erudite...............

most pedantic !!

I'm right at 400 SOny DVM60 black red tapes and have not noticed a problem at all on the tape. Occaisionally I notice a dropout on my captured files, but they seem capture related because they are neve exactly 1/2 sec and if I go back to the original I don't notice a dropout.

"it aint insurance, no one is going to restage a shot "

Neither will Worker's Comp, Unemployment Comp, or G/L. restage a shot. That's a poor reason to not pay for them.
Shoot, we buy locks and cables for our equipment.
You don't *want* that stuff to happen, just like you don't want dropouts, but them's the facts of life.

Quality tape *IS* insurance. We buy higher S/N media because it's not "just ones and zeros"; what gets recorded is a magnetic field of plus and neg charge, the *discernable difference* between them being interpreted by firmware, always a subjective decision. By the way, exactly the same concept is used on hard disks, and *failures do happen* - which is why recording to rotating media, or even flash memory, should be *redundantly* recorded to tape (or some other media) as well.

And yes, we jog-shuttle those tapes unmercifully when the only option was to shoot direct to tape. It's kinda chosen by the cam you take to the shoot, donchaknow?

Sure, the hobbiest should buy the cheapest tapes available. Those tapes will probably work, and in the rare event you get a dropout you won't worry about an angry client, lost billing or expensive re-shooting anyway. I listed a good, inexpensive & reliable brand in my previous post.

For the professional, buying the best tape ranks right up there with UPS, constantly doing defrags and backups, redundant equipment and supplies, redundant people, and alternative shooting sites.

The info from Sony about the DVM-63HD tape says:

"New lubricant improves tape stability running under a wide range of operating conditions."

So if you used this then switched to one of their black/red tapes, you would be mixing lubricant types on your camera heads. Does this matter? Should we care?

Mixing tapes is not a Good Idea because material leaves the tape and sticks to the head(s). In the past, a certain well-known tape brand often discussed in this forum was particularly (pun intended) indicted for leaving "non-compatible" residue which tended to react unfavorably with other brands. That apparently has changed; yet mixing residues from different formulations of tape lubes, protective cover material, and even recording media (by the time you wear the tape down that far) can only be accommodated by an accellerated head-cleaning plan.
Just as you (should) do in your vehicles, stick with one formulation. No need to interject wierd unpredictable chemistry into the process along with all the other wierdness that can go on.

What are some other HDV/AMEII compliant tapes other than Sony Digital Master PHDVM-63D?

Buddy

When I got my first FX1, special tape for recording HDV was not available, so I used Sony DVCAM tapes. As I didn't want to mix tapes, I always continued using Sony DVCAM tapes also for the other 2 FX1s. Until now, I only noticed 3-4 dropouts and am generally recording 10 hours of footage per week.

What are some other HDV/AMEII compliant tapes other than Sony Digital Master PHDVM-63D?

Buddy