HDV to Z7 compact flash really reliable.

Laurence wrote on 3/10/2008, 3:28 PM

I have had lots of problems with HDV footage from my HVR-A1. Frames are missing from the beginnings and ending of clips, the motion at the beginnings of clips kind of stays static for a second before it starts to move as the clip rolls on. Worse than any of that however is that about once or twice per tape, I get hdv clips that will crash Vegas. I have been re-smartrendering the crash prone clips in Womble MPEG VCR and that seems to fix them, but after doing that they preview really slowly and sometimes will crash a video they are smart-rendered into.

Anyway, I have none of these problems when I record HDV to compact flash memory on my new Z7. The clips shot this way seem to be absolutely free of all this formatting nonsense. The beginnings and ends are intact, they never crash Vegas, and they preview and smart-render flawlessly,\.

I haven't tried using the Z7 with tape yet, but I imagine that with tape it would be the same frustrating experience I've had with my HVR-A1 and a rented Z1 which had exactly the same issues.

Anyway, all this leads me to believe that the majority of problems people are having with HDV has more to do with tape errors than it does with anything that Vegas is or isn't doing.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 3/10/2008, 3:43 PM

Exactly. The 270 and Z7 seem to have no problems at all.
We haven't experienced tape issues when using both tape and CF, but...
Are you using Sony cards, or cheaper CF solutions?

Laurence wrote on 3/10/2008, 5:21 PM

I'm having no problems whatsoever with a cheap $79 133x 16GB Transcend card. On the other hand I didn't get adequate performance from a Kingston Memory 133x 16GB card that cost more than twice as much. A downloaded speed test confirmed that the Transcend was indeed faster.

I posted about this some time ago here:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=580387

One guy on the DVinfo.net forum posted that he's getting good performance out of the 32GB 133x Transcend card. I got him to run the same speed test and he got slightly faster results than I did with my 16GB card. Tapeworks Texas has this 32GB card for $150. So does Newegg.com.

kairosmatt wrote on 3/10/2008, 5:47 PM

Although I've had a few clips that have crashed Vegas, I don't recognize the other problems you mentioned. But I started using Premiere CS3 for batch capture and since doing that (and leaving the computer alone while it was working) I've had zero problem clips.

farss wrote on 3/10/2008, 6:00 PM

Using this logic it'd be OK if an audio app crashed when someone sang out of tune or a word processor was OK if it crashed when you made a spelling mistake.

The clips aren't the problem, Vegas is the problem.

Bob.

johnmeyer wrote on 3/11/2008, 12:04 AM

I have posted this before, and it may not relate to your problem, since I don't think you re-use tapes, but if you have a tape that was previously used to record DV, and you then record over it in HDV mode, if there is even a one frame gap where the DV video still exists (between shots), it WILL crash your computer.

I suspect this is at the root of at least some of the crashes people report.

And, BTW, it is NOT a Sony problem: it actually happens in the Windows drivers.

NickHope wrote on 3/11/2008, 12:20 AM

Interesting to hear this Laurence. Too bad the Z7 doesn't fit my Z1 underwater housing :(

>>I have been re-smartrendering the crash prone clips in Womble MPEG VCR and that seems to fix them, but after doing that they preview really slowly and sometimes will crash a video they are smart-rendered into. <<

I've been doing a lot of work with this and as far as I can tell this is because Womble renders them as program stream files which get decoded by the Main Concept codec in Vegas. And that codec isn't at all stable in 8.0b. My solution was to re-render my 3500 program stream clips to transport stream clips back in 8.0a on another computer and now they're decoded by the Sony codec and they're stable. I used Veggie Toolkit to do the batch render (perhaps Rosebud's new proxystream script might do this too).

I'm wondering if program stream mpeg files will play nice again in 8.0c.

NickHope wrote on 3/13/2008, 2:04 AM

I read today that the HVR-MRC1 will work with any HDV camera with a firewire port. A guy even has one working on a Canon A1. So as long as you can get hold of one and can mount it somehow, you're not just limited to the Z7 for this feature.

Laurence wrote on 3/13/2008, 11:28 AM

The HVR-MRC1 has two modes: one that follows and records everything that it's host camera shoots, and a second that synchronizes to a camera like the Z7 or 270 and will allow the camera to control exactly what it records. Strangely, it comes from the factory in the first mode which is quite confusing to new Z7 owners. Anyway, in the follow mode, it will work with a Z1 or any other HDV or SD camera. You have to record to both the card and tape in this mode however.

Spot|DSE wrote on 3/13/2008, 11:53 AM

Actually, there are three modes;
External control-sends only to card
Sync-locked to tape
Record Trigger-records when tape is out/being changed/over
Then there is tape-only mode as well.

Another nice feature is that you can record SD to card or tape while recording HD to tape, or SD to both, or to to HD on both

FWIW, we've got a training DVD on the Z7, should be shipping early next week.

Laurence wrote on 3/13/2008, 1:06 PM

The three modes are on the Z7 camera. On the HVR-MRC1 itself, there are two modes, "follow" which simply records everything that host camera records to tape, and "sychro" which syncs to the three Z7 modes of control that Spot mentioned.

I believe I will have to buy that DVD. I've got most of the Z7 figured out, but there are still a few things that have me scratching my bald head. Plus, Spot always seem to figure out stuff that I'm sure even the Sony engineers don't know...

Spot|DSE wrote on 3/13/2008, 5:14 PM

Spot always seem to figure out stuff that I'm sure even the Sony engineers don't know...

Not so much that they don't know, it's that there are no owners manuals when we get the cameras, and so we just sit there like monkeys pressing buttons until something screams "COOL!" or "Don't Do That!"
The Flange Back settings on the cam were like that at first, we were using a rez chart (it was handy) vs a back focus chart, and the Z7 didn't like that much. The 270 shrugged it off. Go figure. Same lens...
Tell you what though...if it wasn't for the extra 10Mbps of the EX...the Z7 is by far a bigger choice, IMO. Very impressive camcorder. Slammin' DSP coupled with the Exmor system is killer, but you've already learned that. :-)

Laurence wrote on 3/14/2008, 3:40 PM

I almost went with the EX1, but the big issues for me were being able to use tape as a backup and when I run out of card space and the price of the card media.

I just ordered a 32GB Transcend Compact Flash today for $149. Added to the 16GB card I already have, that will be about $230 for 48GB of tapeless memory. 48GB of card memory for the EX1 would be $2,625 at current prices: more than ten times the price!

By the way, If the EX1 DRM protected against using generic SxS cards, I have no doubt that http://www.transcendusa.com/Products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=162these Transcend SxS cards[/link] would work just fine, at least in SP mode.