Help! Vegas 6: 60i to 24p conversions Feature???

DannySabre wrote on 4/20/2005, 5:39 AM
Okay, Charile White's DMN article talks a lot about the 60i to 24p conversions and I know the ol' white paper on 24p has a bit near the end about 60i to 24p workflow...

Do we just do the same thing as that white paper suggests? Because now if you go Vegas 6 Comparison Chart you'll notice that "60i to 24p" conversions is a feature now exclusive to Vegas 6!!!

But I'm having trouble figuring out if there's actually some new capability/feature-set re: this???

There is NOTHING in Vegas 6 manual re: 60i to 24p conversions...

So what is the workflow in Vegas 6 to say convert CF24 from Sony HDV to 24p?

Thank you!

Comments

Paul_Holmes wrote on 4/20/2005, 5:52 AM
In the Vegas 6 help file under "How do I" there is a topic, "Working with 24p Progressive Scan." Under that you can find the procedure for converting 60i. Also, on the VASST site Douglas Spotted Eagle has a great tutorial that is applicable.

http://vasst.com/resource.aspx?id=d42540f9-bff6-4b4d-9421-052e887905de
DannySabre wrote on 4/20/2005, 6:01 AM
Paul, thank you!

Knew about the ol' VASST tutorial...

will check the How Do I...

didn't see it before!

thx!
DannySabre wrote on 4/21/2005, 5:59 PM
Help - I tried the How Do I...

It's not really giving me stuff that matches too well with DVX 24p...

(my footage is 60i - NOT CF24 - from Sony HDV FX1)

I'll try the "old" 60i to 24p workflow from the old whitepaper (disable resambling, etc.) - but does ANYONE (ie. SPOT???) have any insight into what special capability Vegas 6 is NOW supposed to have regarding converting to 24p???

It's in the comparison chart as a NEW FEATURE - pls. help!!!!
DannySabre wrote on 4/22/2005, 11:55 AM
*bump*
Laurence wrote on 4/22/2005, 12:39 PM
It's the last feature on this list that is on version 6 but not version 5:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/products/showproduct.asp?PID=965&FeatureID=8245
DannySabre wrote on 4/22/2005, 12:52 PM
So Laurence, thanks... that's what I'm trying to say...

so what's the "feature?"

how does it work?

Help!
chaboud wrote on 4/22/2005, 1:16 PM
We've improved on the underlying algorithms for rate conversion.

You'll also notice better quality output with velocity envelopes and varying frame-rates. The difference is subtle but appreciable. If you're looking to go to 24p after shooting 60i, you'll find that your output can be quite good with Vegas 6. It wasn't bad with Vegas 5, but it's better now.

A tip for shooting 60i for 24p: Keep your shutter speed at 1/60th if you can. This seems to yield the best result with 60i to 24p conversions.
Laurence wrote on 4/22/2005, 1:53 PM
Does that mean that other frame rate conversions are better as well, for instance between PAL and NTSC?
Laurence wrote on 4/22/2005, 2:08 PM
Ideally frame rate conversion from interlaced footage would be based upon 60 progressive frames with the missing lines filled in by doubling or interpolating rather than from 30 field interlaced frames. Motion after conversion would be a whole lot smoother that way. Up until now, AVISynth is the only way we could do this, but it was kind of a pain. Is this what Vegas 6 does now?
DannySabre wrote on 4/23/2005, 5:36 AM
@SonyChaboud:

the instructions in Vegas 6 for the conversion DEVIATE significantly from the 24p whitepaper...

which protocol should we follow?

More crucially - is there a NEW protocol that should be followed?

Can you elaborate - step by step - taking 60i shot at 1/60th and converting to 24p. In Vegas 6.

Thank you!

chaboud wrote on 4/24/2005, 6:34 AM
You're going to love this. It's as easy as setting the project properties and letting Vegas do the work.

Just follow the steps in the help file.



Follow the 1/60th for 60i and 1/50 for 50i rule for shutter speed and you'll have some great looking footage.

Happy shooting.
Paul_Holmes wrote on 4/24/2005, 9:12 AM
Well, I see I made it too hard in the first place, although the 60i to 24p stuff I tried first still looked great. I'm rerendering some footage according to SonyChaboud's simple instructions ( as in the help file) and it looks like I'm now getting smoother 24p.
kkolbo wrote on 4/24/2005, 10:29 AM
Don't you hate it when they take the science project out of it? NOw what do we have to stay up at night worrying about?
Ros wrote on 4/24/2005, 12:09 PM
In the project properties, what should the deinterlaced method be set to and what should be the best motion blur type set to ?

Should I use smart resample or no resample or force resample on the event ? Should I be using video supersampling ?

I have been testing this with a sequence which was shot at 1/60 (SONY PD-150) where there is a pan from left to right and vice versa and I have tried different settings, including the settings from the help section in Vegas 6, in converted 60i to 24p. The motion in the pan is very choppy, sort of vertical flickerings.

Is there a way to avoid this problem ?
Thanks,

Robert

Paul_Holmes wrote on 4/24/2005, 12:20 PM
Yep, Keith, rendered for several hours the wrong way, and then read SonyChaboud's post above and it's working better the easier way.

And Robert, I just rendered a 60i to 24p by simply following SonyChaboud's instructions. The file was set to the default "Smart Resample" , Motion Blur set to Gaussian, Deinterlace set to none.

Even fast pans turned out very smoothly and not choppy.
Spot|DSE wrote on 4/24/2005, 12:58 PM
FWIW, I put an updated tutorial on this on the VASST site just last night.
Paul_Holmes wrote on 4/24/2005, 5:56 PM
And after reading Douglas's updated article on VASST, I realize things are even better than I thought. Just bring your 60i into a 24p timeline, do all the editing, effects, etc you need and render when your ready. Good stuff! Also found Douglas tip on using HSL filter and the Zenote plugins (which I have) very useful.