Help w info please? New system build

memannmusic wrote on 4/4/2014, 6:32 PM
Hi, I mainly read the forum here but am need of more info on a new system build (VP 10 and 11 and SForge 10 user). Hoping to hear from you of what I'm in store for as for performance gains - and - possible problems and tips/routes to fixes.

I use my home system for studio tracking, and because of my audio cards (two modified Maudio Delta 1010s for 16channels of 24b/44.1 I/O) my build is VERY specific (else I'm looking at moving to USB/Fwire I/O, which I'm far from being a fan of).
I use Pro Tools 8.05 Mpowered currently (if requested by clients that is), but mainly use V10/11 for sessions (personally I feel, Vegas is incredible for audio from tracking to mixdown. Solid, so flexible, great U/I). I mainly use PT now for music production/writing (midi, vsti, etc.). I also do video projects as well. I use Sibelius 6 (I know, need to update that I expect too) for scores.

Don't laugh but up until now I've been using WinXPsp3 on a Athlon X2 4400 (dual core) w 4gb ram, AGP video on an asus A8V Deluxe w 4 HDDs.. It's been getting work done for...I don't even know how long now, but a long time.
Recently the mobo has been acting up (it will go soon) so, it's finally time to upgrade the system...and so I've researched for weeks the best system parts I could afford that will meet the specifics I need to adhere too (older, modified PCI audio cards that I prefer to keep utilizing).

No gaming here (xbox every once in a blue moon if I feel like gaming)

Current new build (already purchased and awaiting delivery):

AMD FX 8350
ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s Motherboard
8GB of ram (dual-ch)
Crucial 240GB SSD (for sys/apps only)
Asus Nvidia GTS-450 pci-e video card (1gb 128-bit DDR5)
1TB and 2 TB SATA hdds internal (+ 1 TB USB/Fwire external for backups, etc)
2 modified PCI Delta 1010 audio cards (ea w rack I/O)
Syba 1x pci-e fwire card (w t.i. chip)
Rosewill HIVE Series HIVE-750 750W psu
Windows 7 Ultimate x64

There are issues with Intel iseries mobos/cpus (based on lots of research, crackling, etc) and they don't have native PCI slots so I knew I would stay AMD, and the parts researched should facilitate the easiest move
* yes I know some faster Intel iseries systems could be built. Not concerned with winning that race, just concerned with getting the work done.

Can you take a look and relay any "likely/possible" hiccups I might come across in regard to getting work done, video and audio projects in Vegas 10/11, Windows 7 64bit, etc. please?
Being such a longtime XP user this is somewhat new ground for me.

I have questions/concerns with:

- the Crucial SSD (240gb). it's what I could afford basically. I'm simply worried about SSDs and longevity, I have a feeling I'll be doing backups a heck of a lot more often now.

- the mobo and the 2 standard (older) PCI slots. Will they operate the same as the older mobo pci? (no revision changes, or spec changes?...and thus should facilitate and function the same for these audio cards just like my old A8V?

- The video card: GTS-450, which I know is lower-end but read some other users here had them). What is the BEST driver to download and use for my purposes (NOT gaming here). Looking to use for a little GPU preview and render help when applicable, and stability. Any gains in preview while editing would be heaven for video projects.

* I'll just be using the DVI outs to two monitors (perhaps one day swap one for the HDMI with my LED TV)

- Looking for your updated advice/tips on streamlining Windows 7 x64 for Audio/Video usage (what to disable, change, etc. in Win7x64).

- Advice on Win7x64 in regard to installing any 32bit applications I use sometimes (is this possible, will things work, etc.)?

Sorry to bother here and thank you for any replies on this.


videoITguy wrote on 4/4/2014, 6:41 PM
FOR me personally I would not choose to build a 64bit OS platform for mainly supporting 32bit apps - you are headed for trouble. If you are building this for Vegas 10 and 11 64bit versions - I would forget doing that project as well. Dump those particular NLE's and buy VegasPro13 64 bit to be installed uniquely on 64bit OS now.
memannmusic wrote on 4/4/2014, 7:08 PM
well, I will be installing the 64bit , and I'm not adverse to moving to 13. Just kind of taking the wait and see approach first.

I REALLY don't want to update Pro Tools (with their pricing) even though I should. In fact I try and sway some clients in allowing vegas when possible...but, some clients want what they want. But the 8.05 update is compatible with Win7x64 so we'll see how that goes.

All I meant by 32bit apps is that there are few old small apps I use from time to time (mainly some quick cvrt progs or helping apps like audio Slow Downer (tor music transcribing). Little things like that. Just wondering what the steps/tips are in installing items like these. if they don't work then so be it I guess. I really don't know my Win7 ins and outs, so it'll be kind fun getting up to speed on this.

Can you tell me about or link me to streamlining Win7x64 for A/V use perhaps?
Spectralis wrote on 4/4/2014, 11:07 PM
Do your audio cards have x64 drivers? (Just checked - they do!) If not you won't be able to use them with a 64bit system. PCI will work as normal. I'm using a UAD-1 and a Poco, both PCI, with my Win 7 x64 system. No problems.

32bit (x86) software can be used on Win 7 Ultimate x64 seamlessly in most cases but there's a compatibility mode you can also try if they don't. Most x64 DAWS can host x86 audio plugins. The latest NVidia driver for your card will be the correct one.

Win 7 is much better than XP which is no longer supported. Win 7 installation is straight forward. Ensure that you have all the necessary instructions at hand during the build - especially the mobo manual. Earth yourself with a wrist band. Don't force anything into place.

You can switch off all the bells and whistles in Win 7 if you like. If you prefer the XP start menu there are 3rd party options available for free. Personally I don't think it's worth messing with Win 7 too much because it's pretty nifty as it is. If you can afford more RAM in the future then increase it to 16GB for more headroom. Win 7 can be a bit more picky than XP when it comes to installing software unless you're logged in as an administrator but there's plenty of help out there should you experience this problem.
Rob Franks wrote on 4/4/2014, 11:36 PM
32bit programs can run on a 64bit platform, but not the other way around, so if you're going to get a new platform, it's best to go 64. In the years I have been running 32 bit programs on win7 64, I can't report a single issue with the 32 bit programs. As noted above, they run quite seamlessly. Frankly, I'm not at all sure why anyone would want a 32 bit platform anymore.
Steve Mann wrote on 4/5/2014, 3:16 PM
I haven't run into any 32-bit programs that win 7-64 won't run. I am sure there are some. The biggest issue you may run into is lack of drivers for your legacy hardware. (I have a Canopus capture device that works just great, but Canopus never upgraded their drivers for Win 7. Their solution? Throw it away and buy their latest product. My solution, Keep an XT system running for the hardware. Canopus, by the way, lost a customer with their decision to not support Win 7 in their legacy products).

You should have asked here before ordering the parts. Windows 7 Ultimate gives you nothing that you don't get in Windows 7 Premium.
dlion wrote on 4/6/2014, 2:13 PM
8gb ram is awfully light. i'd go to 16 or 32. you'll thank yourself!
videoITguy wrote on 4/6/2014, 2:19 PM
Of course 32bit programs CAN run on a 64bit OS - I can also run some Windows95 programs on a WindowsXPSP3 - SOME sometimes.
Hardware interfaces and supporting programs can be the gotcha.
OldSmoke wrote on 4/6/2014, 2:21 PM
8GB is more then sufficient, Vegas doesn't if use those. I got 16 and briefly put in 32GB and there was absolutely no difference in performance even with multiple instances if Vegas running.

I would be more concern on populating the slots on such a motherboard. I would have to read the manual to see how the various sockets use Interrupts and bandwidth and which ones may conflict, especially with two sound cards.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

riredale wrote on 4/6/2014, 4:21 PM
As I've said before, I'm surprised by how much ram people are installing. Is there truly a need? Just use Windows Task Manager or equivalent to see how much ram is actually in use--both before starting Vegas and during a render. I'd really like to know.

Yeah, I know, I'm running V9, but my PC is utterly stable 24/7 with just 2GB of ram and no virtual memory paging file.
OldSmoke wrote on 4/6/2014, 5:38 PM
2GB are certainly ok for a 32bit OS.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Steve Mann wrote on 4/6/2014, 9:28 PM
If you have more ram than Vegas needs, assign it to Ram Preview. This way a Shift-B preview will give you more than a few seconds.
memannmusic wrote on 4/7/2014, 3:17 AM
Thanks for the replies. I think I'll use 8GB ram for a bit and move to 16GB if needed. Just picked up a well vented, simple case to keep things cool and quiet (not OCing btw, I would have bought a 990FX mobo otherwise). Would have had it together by now but apparently newegg thinks I need to learn patience while the $%$^damn PSU arrives separately ;)

I did make sure there were Win7x64 drivers for my deltas (one that users finally gave thumbs up to that is) were there, it was another reason for the decision to upgrade.

Oldsmoke, you raise an excell point. I too am still kind of concerned about the slot population and conflicts given the min choices in mobos with 2 PCI. I think it'll be okay but we'll see. Of course with older sys you had options to swap the cards in.

But I think using the 2 PCI will work. Would anyone like to take a peek and advise?

I for sure disable onboard sound, coms , unnecessary. The onboard NIC however I'll have to use, and that's a first (usually always avoid using any onboard items like these).

However, as a last resort, I do have weapon onhand I could as an option, an old but working Avid PCI expander card and rack. I haven't had to use it so it's still unknown but that should alleviate audio card and "sharing" issues if i see it.

What I found in forums is that there TONS of Intel iSeries users faced with an unavoidable bus contention issue with the PCI Delta 1010 (static/distorted sound occurs) where AMD users were spared, so I knew another AMD based system would be my route. But wth, shaved some dollars in the process anyway (entire new sys for $640 roughly).

Curious to see the difference between my old AGP+athlon x2 4400+SATA1 and this FX8350+GTS-450+SSD, that should be kind of funny. But again I gotta hand it to that old Athlon x2, it has served me well (and it will continue until I verify the new system ready).
Terje wrote on 4/8/2014, 4:16 AM
@videoITguy >> I would not choose to build a 64bit OS platform for mainly supporting 32bit apps

I am going to completely disagree with videoITguy here. Going 32 bit in this day and age is absurd. As someone else said, forget about 8G of memory, get 16 or more. You'll never regret having lots of memory. The vast majority of 32 bit apps run fine on Win64 (I have not run any that do not) and individually they will have full 32bit memory access, but as a group of apps, they will play in the 64 bit space, so each of them will run a lot better. Why have your apps compete for 4G of memory when they can each have 4G on a 32G machine?

Max 4G of memory in 2014? You must be joking. One of the many web pages I currently have open in Chrome consumes more than 100MBs alone. In fact, I have nine tabs in Chrome at the moment that consume more than 50M of memory. There is no such thing as too much money or too much memory (or love).

Just make sure that your peripherals, graphics cards etc have 64 bit drivers, the vast majority of new stuff does.
Terje wrote on 4/8/2014, 5:15 AM
I use Lightroom to organize my assets in general. It is therefore almost permanently open. I use After Effects for some stuff and Premiere Pro for video editing. Just checking what I am currently working on, just opening those, my memory usage is 7.5G.

The setup is (for the record) rock solid. I could not do this and have a functional computer with less than 16G of memory. SSDs are also amazingly helpful.
riredale wrote on 4/8/2014, 10:50 AM
I am uncomfortable working with more than, say, a half-dozen apps open on the desktop at once. Right now my system shows around 80 processes running, including Vegas9, a whole bunch of applications sitting in the system tray including a web server, Replay AV concurrently recording a radio stream in the background, Avast antivirus doing its thing, Mozilla T'bird email active, and of course this Firefox browser, yet RamPage reports I'm using 1.2GB of ram, total.

But I can certainly see how other applications (which I have no knowledge of) could suck up ram. As a former programmer from an earlier time I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a single application requiring GIGABYTES of ram to run. But it's certainly possible.

These machines are remarkable accomplishments. I can see how users get emotionally attached, as discussed in a nearby thread. My PC stays up 24/7, never hangs even though it's overclocked about 12%.
Steve Mann wrote on 4/8/2014, 12:01 PM
" I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of a single application requiring GIGABYTES of ram to run. But it's certainly possible."

It's really simple. If a program normally uses hard disk for scratch space, but finds gigabytes of unreserved system RAM, then use the RAM.
memannmusic wrote on 4/13/2014, 2:40 PM
Update: holy h*ll was I overdue for a system update (haha). Everything's working great so far with all audio and video. Deltas working well. I'm really surprised with this low end video card too for preview and renders, I thought the cpu alone would be the faster but the combo is nearly 35-40% faster. Glad i went w ssd sys drive.