Hey look - I'm going to complain about AAF support again!!

norgeworks wrote on 4/26/2005, 9:47 PM
Watching Avid draw waveforms was driving me crazy so I thought I'd give the 'ole AAF another shot and do my mix in vegas.

WTF is going on? Did I happen to get the buggiest demo on earth, or is this simply not working AT ALL?

The correct number of channels shows up - 4. It chokes on a number of .omf files that it can't seem to find. That should be impossible as I didn't have any video channels in my export--why would they even be referenced on import? They don't exist!

The fun part was playing my spot. A few clips are correct--most are not. It doesn't seem to be respecting the proper in and out points. The source is correct, but nowhere NEAR where the edits should be. My audio is simple cuts--no effects, not even volume changes.

COME ON SONY. For being bullet point number three, this is a JOKE. AND HELL YES I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN. (I'm aware I don't have to upgrade--thanks)

I can't be the only guy on earth who works on avid but would rather do (at least) his audio in vegas. Did ANYONE try avid <---> vegas aaf before putting this thing to market?

What a joke. What an absolute joke. Bullet point #3. Doesn't. Work.

Bring on the flames...

(and yes, I'm constructively forwarding this to Sony--I'm not here to b*tch--I want this solved)

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 4/26/2005, 9:52 PM
I've successfully imported several AAF files from Sonar and Nuendo, but haven't tested anything from Avid, since I only have an older version of DVExpress.
Just out of curiosity, have you tried the CuiBono import/export? That is a pretty smooth app, and if it doesn't import it right, nothing will.
John_Cline wrote on 4/26/2005, 9:58 PM
Well, I hope your message to Sony was worded more "constructively" than your post above.

John
jlafferty wrote on 4/26/2005, 10:04 PM
I'm not here to b*tch

Sure doing a convincing impression of it, then!
norgeworks wrote on 4/26/2005, 10:05 PM
DSE/spot - thanks. Hadn't heard of it. I'll try the demo when I've got time. Looks promising.

John - not much. But that's what happens when I'm stressed out and my tools fight me instead of helping me. *sigh* If only there was an "undo" for 'send'...

I've been in contact with a few sony guys--sending them aaf's to test etc. Things are progressing, but this is maddening.

back to work...
p@mast3rs wrote on 4/26/2005, 10:08 PM
Wow, I use Avid too but apparently they didnt include the "elitist" attitude that I guess is supposed to come with the product. Maybe I can get me an attitude on ebay.
norgeworks wrote on 4/26/2005, 10:08 PM
"Sure doing a convincing impression of it, then!"

You like? ;)
Spot|DSE wrote on 4/26/2005, 10:11 PM
Norgeworks, can you send me a short aaf file to test? I can manage up to about 50 megs. You can find my email in my profile if you're interested. I'd like to see what's up too...
norgeworks wrote on 4/26/2005, 10:23 PM
"Wow, I use Avid too but apparently they didnt include the "elitist" attitude that I guess is supposed to come with the product. Maybe I can get me an attitude on ebay."

I appreciate your sarcasm, but can you tell me what is elistist about wanting something to work? It is flub-ups like this AAF issue that continue to knock vegas out of consideration for many broadcasters--believe me, I know. I've pitched vegas every fiscal year but something has always held it back.

For my work I require serial control. And frame accuracy (Decklink) And functioning .omf / aaf. If that's elitist, then hell--I'm king elitist himself--and proud.

Some people here have to learn to stop circling the wagons at every sign of trouble. These are real issues. I'd love for someone else to step forward and either tell me avid <----> vegas works or doesn't. So far I'm the only one raising the issue--and that adds to my frustration. I guess I'd like answers, and they don't seem to be forthcoming.

Some people here offer sound advice--and solutions. Others offer sarcasm and witty retorts.

I'm sorry for having enough passion to care about the future of vegas. I'm sorry I've tried to sell it year after year against FCP and lost.

blah.
B_JM wrote on 4/27/2005, 7:24 AM
Sony can get AAF reference Sample files from the AAF Org (as they are a member).

this also is a good read http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/readme/DigiTranslator_Read_Me_6.4.pdf

and doesn't look to good for compatability even between different avid products ..



maybe the only real solution:

http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/editorsnet/article_11778.shtml
vitalforce2 wrote on 4/27/2005, 7:54 AM
There's a recent post about an updated dll for the AAF function, which somebody tried and maybe it'll be in release 6.0b, etc.

I really hope the Avid compatibility issue gets worked out soon because that's how I convinced my "how much more are you going to SPEND?" wife that I needed the upgrade from 5 to 6. Whew.

(Yes, I love her dearly, but Mars and Venus, you know....)

Seriously though, I'm doing the final cuts on a feature DV and hoped to send the project to someone with access to Avid equipment at a post house (in NYC) to do color correction.
.
B_JM wrote on 4/27/2005, 8:05 AM
why not do it in Vegas ?
Jimmy_W wrote on 4/27/2005, 8:31 AM
Good Question.
norgeworks wrote on 4/27/2005, 10:05 AM
I've been brought in to cut half a series. The lead editor wants to be able to step in at any time and work on the episodes I'm doing. He works with Avid so for this project, so will I.

Delivery is on DVCAM, but a different market might request Digibeta...haven't heard yet. If that's the case I'd like to avoid the graphics mash-up of DV and do a version with uncompressed graphics. Render out and layback somewhere else (no mojo). My hope was to cut it in Avid as DV, then export a "linked to" AAF to do audio and replace the graphics with the original uncompressed sources seeing as I already have Vegas, but no Mojo. (I could still do this, but I was hoping to avoid writing down every source and in / out point for every graphic I used)

From what I've been reading (thanks B_JM!) AAF isn't quite what I'd hoped it would be. Doesn't seem to work all that well--for any platform. Perhaps I was hoping for too much...
busterkeaton wrote on 4/27/2005, 10:33 AM
http://www.cuibono-soft.com/

Norge,

Have you tried Spot's suggestion and checked out Cui Bono. This is the tool that Vegas users used before Vegas 6. Search the forums for info on this. There's probably some in the audio forum too.

AAF isn't quite what I'd hoped it would be. Doesn't seem to work all that well--for any platform. Perhaps I was hoping for too much... I think this might be why your posts generated so much heat. A lot of folks know that when you work with AAF, you still have a lot fixing and tweaking to do.
Spot|DSE wrote on 4/27/2005, 10:40 AM
XML seems a lot more capable and sensible...AAF doesn't work inside AVID's own products very well. Kludgy at best. But, it does work correctly with the products that have tried to work around their issues, or seems to. I know a few guys that have worked with Nuendo, I worked mostly with Sonar. Works correctly there for cuts and basic placement.
jlafferty wrote on 4/27/2005, 10:58 AM
norge,

Have you had much experience transporting AAF's from Avid to Avid? Before hopping up and down about Vegas's lack of functionality, do you know Avid is supporting it much better?
B_JM wrote on 4/27/2005, 11:01 AM
(jlafferty)


that is why i posted this link

http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/readme/DigiTranslator_Read_Me_6.4.pdf
norgeworks wrote on 4/27/2005, 2:19 PM
"Have you had much experience transporting AAF's from Avid to Avid? Before hopping up and down about Vegas's lack of functionality, do you know Avid is supporting it much better?"

No. We use omf, which seems to work fine for our purposes. I'd glady take omf support--hell, omf, aaf, xml--makes no difference to me, I'd just like to transport projects from platform to platform with minimal hassle.

Cui Bono might do the trick. I'll report back when I've had time to test it. Thanks!
norgeworks wrote on 4/27/2005, 2:29 PM
B_JM: thank you for your constructive (and informative) posts.
[r]Evolution wrote on 4/27/2005, 6:32 PM
Scared to say what I'd really like to about AAF support... but, I too would like it to work as stated.


I'll check out Cui Bono.

Curious though... if AAF is NOT the way to go... why did they go that way?
jlafferty wrote on 4/27/2005, 9:44 PM
that is why i posted this link

OK. I was asking more about his personal experience than a whitepaper...