HLG / Color Spaces / BT.2020 / Rec.709

vincent-k wrote on 3/23/2021, 5:07 PM

Hi all,

This is probably a basic question but I'm slightly confused about colorspaces and how Vegas handles them.

I'm shooting in HLG in a BT.2020 colorspace but would like to just output as a regular non-HDR colorspace (Rec 709). What would I have to do to get this to happen? Looking online there are a bunch of tutorials using Premiere, DaVinci and Final Cut but I haven't found anything that's specific to Vegas Pro (I'm on v18)

In File > Properties, should HDR be on or off? I would assume that this is the output property of the project?

For each individual clip there also is a Color Space property. What would be the effect of changing this property?

Sorry for the very basic question

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vincent-k wrote on 3/24/2021, 10:41 PM

HLG wasn't available on older Sonys, it started with the a6400 generation, so this is a new trend. I have the a6500 which lacks it amd a6600 which has it. For 8 bit, Paul Leeming recommends Cine 2 or standard picture profile. Be wary of YouTube advice.

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the information. The latest Leeming LUTS actually mention the HLG formats, which, with the other information I've gathered from various other web people was why I ended up using HLG

adis-a3097 wrote on 3/24/2021, 10:51 PM

@RogerS

What half? RED works natively and all mentioned image formats work well in VP. ARRI, Canon and SONY have their dedicated converters. All serious stuff. Pro, if you will. Now what's with that HLG thing? It's not meant to be intermediate or acquisition format. It's a TV delivery format. It's good for what it is, nothing more.

What frustrates me the most is that one can "start somewhere" by skipping all the basics yet expects to be taken seriously when shit hits the fan. Meh...

RogerS wrote on 3/25/2021, 7:46 PM

Vincent, I didn't say it is unsupported, just that it isn't recommended, including by the person who made your LUT! Anyway if you want to start in hard mode that's fine- the key is not to underexpose it as so much of the data is dedicated to highlights.

HLG will work as an editing format but there is some tradeoff between dynamic range and color quality (only so many gradations to work with in an 8-bit file). If you're shooting landscapes and always needing a bit more dynamic range to preserve detail in the sky, maybe that's a good tradeoff. If you're in a home studio with lighting, no benefit at all. HLG should work better than pure log formats as it uses the 8-bit container more intelligently. If you have trouble exposing for it, try Cine 2.

There's also a good Facebook group for the Leeming LUT with many Sony users, if you're not in it already.

vincent-k wrote on 3/25/2021, 8:55 PM

Vincent, I didn't say it is unsupported, just that it isn't recommended, including by the person who made your LUT! Anyway if you want to start in hard mode that's fine- the key is not to underexpose it as so much of the data is dedicated to highlights.

HLG will work as an editing format but there is some tradeoff between dynamic range and color quality (only so many gradations to work with in an 8-bit file). If you're shooting landscapes and always needing a bit more dynamic range to preserve detail in the sky, maybe that's a good tradeoff. If you're in a home studio with lighting, no benefit at all. HLG should work better than pure log formats as it uses the 8-bit container more intelligently. If you have trouble exposing for it, try Cine 2.

There's also a good Facebook group for the Leeming LUT with many Sony users, if you're not in it already.

thanks for the info, i'll check out the facebook group as well

AVsupport wrote on 3/28/2021, 3:51 PM

As said, HLG is an acquisition format designed for delivery to HDR screens, with somewhat downward compatibility to standard 709 screens. If your scene requires more dynamic range I would choose a Cine profile since your camera is limited to 8bit, LOG makes no sense. In a situation like this (when I shoot A7S3 and A73) I choose Cine4 which gives good low light contrast and 109% video levels and adjust gamma in the grade.