Thanks everyone - very interesting to hear that the pattern of use seems similar in many places.

Sorry John - should have said I'm in Perth, Western Australia, although this project was in Bunbury, a city two hours drive south of here.

I haven't had any complications with firmware upgrades etc. - my BR player is a Sony which cost $90 about 18 months ago, and it boots up BR as quickly as DVD.

It seems that Mr & Mrs Average aren't worried about the considerable increase in quality of Blu-ray, and this reminds me that many of the discussions we have here about quality and the latest camera etc. are for us rather than our customers!

The USB stick issue is interesting. Surely someone somewhere must have come up with a way of packaging USB sticks in something that sits nicely on a shelf! This type of media also makes it even easier for one person to buy and copy for their mates!

The main thing for me would be how to create a menu structure on USB. With my discs I always give users the choice of playing from the start or selecting any scene or song from the production.
I do have a multimedia production program called Mediator which I use for CD Roms and DVD Roms, and with which I can do almost anything, but I've never tried it with HD video - I must have a go at this - it can also output as HTML or Flash ....

I would venture to guess that 90% of people buying tv's with usb ports don't even know they are there or what to do with them.

Delivery of product in rom form or USB Stick can be done with a number of different authoring front-ends. Recall front-end authoring is what launched CD_rom years ago. So you could be in a vicious full circle.

Personally I have been authoring and working with delivery Blu-ray exclusively for the last five years and i deliver a Blu-ray title with BD-Rom features - so it has the convenience of delivery and expediency in Blu-ray set-tops as well as the depth of data delivery with the BD-Rom with its own front-end. That kind of optical disc was the promise of mixed-mode DVD years ago. Now it is on Blu-ray better than ever.

Forget the USB stick - it will really take you no where - support mixed mode Blu-ray for all its potential.

"I would venture to guess that 90% of people buying tv's with usb ports don't even know they are there or what to do with them."

Very true. Add to that the fact that with very few exceptions, most of them have the USB port on the back of the set where it's nearly impossible to reach without pulling the set out and going behind it. Years ago they tended to be on one of the edges, but not so much anymore. I suppose one could get a 6 foot USB extension cable and leave the end out where it's accessible, but no one stocks these anymore either so they would be special orders.

Thing i've noticed in my local demographic is that the over-45 and under-15 crowd couldn't care less about DVD vs. Blu-Ray except for the cost, and Blu-Ray loses there. The 15--45 folks couldn't care less about shiny discs and watch all their HD streaming, so Blu-Ray loses there too.

Lovelight gets the prize for the most accurate post.

Blu-Ray has been a huge disappointment, compared to DVD. As I described in this thread many, many years ago:

Blu-ray & HD-DVD players coming

"DVD player shipments surpassed VCR shipments in September 2001. This was over four years after DVD players were first shipped in this country (March 1997)."

It has now been over eight years since the first Blu-Ray players shipped, and DVD media sales continue to outstrip Blu-Ray sales by over two to one. Here are my sources for that statement:

DVD Weekly Sales Chart

and

Blu-Ray Weekly Sales Chart

Since these links will point to new information each week, here is an Excel spreadsheet that contains the numbers contained in those links today (August 4, 2014). These number are taken from unit sales data during the last week in May for DVD movie sales. The Blu-Ray sales data are from a week later (just because that is how the site presented it). I'm sure the week difference won't matter much for this discussion.

Blu-Ray and DVD Movie Sales -- Excel Spreadsheet

As you can see in my Excel presentation, if you add Blu-Ray and DVD sales together, Blu-Ray only makes up 33% of the combined total. That means DVDs outsold Blu-Ray 2:1.

It is interesting to note that Blu-Ray sales for 3D titles is quite high (e.g., "Avatar"). This may explain why a few people feel that Blu-Ray is doing better than it really is: if you watch a lot of 3D, you are probably doing that exclusively with Blu-Ray source material.

All sales figures show DVD movie sales declining because of streaming, and Blu-Ray movie sales not really increasing (3%/yr. increase).

However, this thread is about Blu-Ray sales by those of us who create and sell our own videos. This is a little different than movie sales and, unfortunately, is probably far worse for Blu-Ray. With only one or two exceptions, everyone who has posted in this thread has said exactly the same thing that has been said in dozens of other threads over the past few years: Blu-Ray demand from customers of the corporate video and event videographers who make up a large portion of this forum is extraordinarily low, and is not growing.

By contrast, as I predicted almost a decade ago (and so did others when the format wars were underway), "Both formats "lose" and something else emerges. " That's what I said in this thread: OT: Blu-ray is getting clobbered

As you can see by the title of that thread, Blu-Ray has not had a great reception amongst our portion of the industry, almost from the start, and it is pretty clear from the comments here, as well as the data, that it is not going to suddenly get better.

It is actually pretty amazing when you think about it, that a technology introduced seventeen years ago (DVD) would find its commercial movie releases still out-selling the newer technology 2:1, even eight years after that Blu-Ray technology was introduced.

By contrast, eight years after DVDs were introduced, you couldn't find a VHS tape of a movie anywhere, except on eBay.

"The main thing for me would be how to create a menu structure on USB."

Hear! Hear!

My solution is to create BD ISO files with full menus, and play them from a hard disk connected to my harware media player (Dune HD Base 3). Unfortunaterly playing BD ISO files with full menu is a rare feature of media players.

The only software player I know of that comes close is DVD Fab Media Player 2, but it does not play BDs authored with DVDA well (button highlight is displaced to the right). BDs authored with TMPGEnc Authoring Works play OK. I contacted the manufacturers once, but they were only interested in playing commercial BDs.

If the ISO file is first mounted, then there are several BD players that will play it, but it is a nuisance to have to mount and unmount the files.

EDIT

The latest version of DVD Fab won't play the menu background, even when authored with TAW!

What I find interesting about this thread is the consensus that image quality is unimportant, so this must have implications for 4K. Personally I find it surprising from a production point-of-view, but recognise that the "watch only once" on a small screen" market is undiscriminating and will accept almost any quality so long as it holds momentary interest. So if that's the market then I guess careless production standards may be acceptable.

Having recently bought a new TV for a holiday house it is very clear that the market is for large screens (I didn't want anything bigger than 50 inch, which appears to be at the smaller end of the market) and this implies that image quality is an important parameter for buyers; it's certainly pushed by the sellers. My husband (who suffers macular degeneration) can't see the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray, but its very clear to me and it must be clear to anyone else who is mildly interested in image quality. Can't say I've had problems with players, either. The arguments in the thread remind me of the "no need for HD" discussions of a few years ago because no one could see the difference on DVD.

In terms of the original question (market for Blu-Ray videos) then the arguments about ubiquitous DVD players and USB are more relevant for non-theatrical productions, although I doubt that USB inputs on granny's older TV should be taken for granted (not one on my Sony Bravia of 2008). I guess it really doesn't matter if it will never be viewed more than once and never on a large screen.

I think Blu-rays failure is mostly due to content. The typical movie doesn't need the resolution and the director doesn't want you to see fake backdrops and so forth. Originally people were wowed watching discovery HD and such. But real movies don't look and shouldn't look like discovery TV. So people lost interest when most movies don't look much better on Blu-ray.

I think 4k will suffer the same fate. I will get it because I have a 120" front projection system and the resolution will be welcomed. But the typical person with a 50" TV simply doesn't need it and once again typical movies won't use it. What actress wants you to see every follicle of hair on her chin.

Just my two cents.

"The main thing for me would be how to create a menu structure on USB."

I once watched a documentary from here:
http://playstation.gt6firstlove.com/
(Being a fan of Gran Turismo 6 :) )

But, something that I like of them is the navigation interface and love to have these if possible, or have similar basic navigation for multiple movie files, or 'merge' multiple movie that must be split by every 4GB for FAT32 compatibility, also with time marker point for long video.

Of course this only works if you play the content via PC web browser only, and won't be supported on Media Players.

Anyone want to try open-source developing this including the easy-authoring interface?

To a lot of people watching a movie is like reading a book. It doesn't matter if it's hardcover or soft cover. Or if the paper is glossy or cheap. Or even the quality of he ink. To them is all about the story and not the delivery system.

[I]I would venture to guess that 90% of people buying tv's with usb ports don't even know they are there or what to do with them. [/I]

That may be true for old farts, but the younger generation not only know they are there, they also know exactly what to do with them.

[I]The main thing for me would be how to create a menu structure on USB. With my discs I always give users the choice of playing from the start or selecting any scene or song from the production. [/I]

Again, that depends on the nature of your program. The type of material I am likely to produce does not need that functionality. As soon as you plug a USB stick into my TV it shows you the file structure on the stick and that includes the full 256 character file name if you choose to use it. It is dead easy to organise folders and file names to say exactly what the program contains.

and with a little help a lot of old farts are catching on pretty damn quickly* ;-)

*and in turn, spreading the word....

Here in the UK streaming HD is growing pretty quickly as most internet connections can now handle it. I assume streaming is more advanced in other countries so if they also have subscription and pay per view film streaming as we do here then I doubt many will buy the films on physical media unless they contain some important and unobtainable extras.

I build my own PC's and it's really annoying that a OEM Blu-ray recorder still costs over 3 times more than a DVD recorder as does the media. Now that 64GB USB sticks are relatively cheap and reusable my next build will include a DVD recorder but not Blu-ray as no one has yet requested my work in that format.

Unless I was preparing work for some huge screen projection then HD is more than adequate for viewing on a display in a gallery. 4k is inevitable but I doubt anyone viewing my work would be able to distinguish the difference between HD or 4k.

I think the process of 4k adoption will have a very long gestation period like Blu-ray has had until it's superseded by a more popular format. As with DVD vs Blu-ray I can't see HD TV owners rushing out to replace their HD TV with a 4k version. Most people I know don't replace their TV's more than once every 10 years as the financial outlay is quite expensive. But they do buy smaller screens for bedrooms in which case they look for cheaper options. So unless 4k prices drop drastically to undercut the HD TV market then, like the (still!) more expensive Blu-ray, 4k take up will be slow.

I think this is a good thing because it slows down that ruthless cycle of obsolescence that these huge corporations have tried to indoctrinate us all with. I'm all for technological advances but I don't like the way it's eeked out by the market to squeeze every dollar out of piecemeal improvements.

Good old Aussie bush - always ahead of the pack! My experience in Sydney is very similar to yours.

Had to author a DVD recently and it was a nightmare (mainly client changes, but hey that's what you get with government).

Also had an error picked up at the mastering facility. Turned out that DVDs don't like lower case extensions and a couple of stray .sfk files had found their way onto the master.

Everything else is mp4, mov or upload to youtube. Whatever specs client wants in whatever container they want.

For my main business (weddings) it's about 90% DVD, 10% BD. Even some clients that book a package that INCLUDES Blu-ray don't take it! I've only ever had one request for USB stick. And that's very recently. It is disappointing that clients are happy with SD, but I think marketing strategy has been poor. As mentioned above, most people don't know that a BD player not only plays DVD, but improves it. I do my best to point this out, but that's kinda one man against the tide.

I started offering Blu-Ray disks this year. I sold 2-3 times as many BDs as DVDs. I think my overall sales were even up because of the Blu-rays. I'm in a unique setting with the souvenir video on the scuba liveaboard. The boat sets the price for the DVD. Adding Blu-Ray was my choice so I opted to charge the same as DVD even though my media cost is higher.

I suspect the reason sales are up is because most people REALLY want a hi-def file for their tablet but BD is as close as I go. (I know how to make a file for tablets, I just choose not to do so). If they are clever they can make their own file once they get home.

Blu-Ray looks so much better for the kind of stuff I do. My guests appreciate the difference.


Regards,

Kimberly

"To a lot of people watching a movie is like reading a book. It doesn't matter if it's hardcover or soft cover. Or if the paper is glossy or cheap. Or even the quality of he ink. To them is all about the story and not the delivery system."

John, that is exceptionally true. For me, my family, and most of my friends, when deciding what to watch and how to watch it, the resolution of the image is probably about 3 steps from the bottom on the list of choices. Does the movie entertain? That's what matters. Yep, i have a 96" screen in my living room. Nope, no HD. How many times has a viewer in my living room complained (or even mentioned) that the pixels are about 1/9" (3mm) square? In several hundred viewings, so far, precisely zero. If anyone did notice, it would only be because the movie was so awful it wasn't holding their interest.

Now, on the other hand, i can certainly see how HD would benefit the videos that Kimberly makes. There's a lot of fine detail in her images that the eye loves to explore.

Stick is interesting, but I don't see it becoming any kind of real standard anytime soon. Too many variables involved. It's not a "dumb" method of delivery. You need to know the formats your tv can play, what disk formatting it will accept... yadda yadda. A disc on the other hand (BD or dvd) works in any player. You don't need to know anything about it. Just pop it in and press play. Most who use discs have been using them for years and still couldn't tell you what a vob or m2ts is, and why should they? They don't have to know.

As for maxing out BD sizes.... don't think so. Pioneer has developed the 400gig disc and is working on a 500

Having said all of that though, clearly we live in a world today where the consumer has choices and some of those choices now (unlike yesteryear) even include such things as the method of delivery. Personally, I think it's great. Although you do have to be a bit more on your toes, it expands the videographer's world and makes for better business.

"A disc on the other hand (BD or dvd) works in any player."

Not entirely true. You certainly can't use a BD in a DVD or DVD-HD player. I've known a lot of folks who didn't know what kind of player they had other than that there was a tray for those shiny discs. Heck, my mom couldn't even tell you if a disc was a DVD or a CD by looking at it. The only reason she knows that the DVD player is for movies is because it's connected to the television, and that the CD player isn't for movies because it isn't connected to the television. As far as that they play different kinds of discs, she wouldn't have any idea.

You've kind of taken what I said out of context. What I meant was a dvd can be played in any dvd player and a blu ray can be played in any blu ray player. I simply didn't think I had to explain it in such detail. Obviously I was wrong.

I am in the process of moving and I had a ton of VHS tapes and DVD's. I was amazed at the space they took up. More amazed that almost all of them were only viewed one time and left for the dust. As for Blu Ray I jumped on the craze and the player collects dust.as well. Every now and then i'll use it for an instruction DVD that comes with some products.

Streaming any entertainment is by far the way to go. It gets better and better.and no dust rag or space required. Just a can of air for the computer now and then

........Streaming any entertainment is by far the way to go.
Yup,, agreed... and we have had plenty of deliveries which are strictly links to streaming, for those that want a keepsake as mentioned by someone earlier , a usb drive with HD video and a custom label fits nicely in a keepsake box.... just sayin... works well here in the Carolinas, My Blueray, bluray or however you spell it , is in my old edit system and I may try it out and burn one after this thread ....no client I have wants one , but maybe I am missing something......doubt it.but kind of open minded , Also I think people are pretty sure what to do with the usb slot on their tv, hell my bluray player has a usb slot....which I use all the time since my tv does not have a usb for anything other than pics...its an ancient 3 or 4 years old set.