I don't use the trimmer. At first I tried to use it, but just found it easier to do everything in the timeline (unlike premiere where I use the trimmer all the time. I found the ability in the premiere trimmer to set in/out points very useful, then I could drop/drag my trimmed media to the timeline. In Vegas I try that, but I always end up selecting the wrong area.)

Same here. As a newbie I just figured that's where I was supposed to go, trimmer to timeline. So I tried, but really don't use it at all anymore. Must be a good reason, anyone? Grob

My guess is that the trimmer is there mostly to accomodate folks who move to Vegas from other software where trimmer usage is pretty much mandatory. SonicFoundry would rather have these people feel comfortable right away in Vegas rather than have them fight over learning the concept of timeline editing. I've taught many new Vegas users how to use the trimmer, but i never use it myself and most of them eventually stop using it as well.

I don't use the Trimmer for trimming but for marking regions only.
Advantage is you can save regions which are marked with the Trimmer so you can access those regions througout different projects and you can display a region view in the Vegas Explorer.
This is a nice feature for organizing Events.

Marco

I actually used the trimmer last night for the first time (wondering like all of you what it is about...) First of all, it doesn't even really "trim". I think "selecter" (or "selector") would be a better name. You get to select a range from the event in the trimmer timeline and insert it (drag and drip it :-)) onto your tracks in the project timeline. I can see how it would have been helpful for me for those long clips that I've been dragging from the Media Bin/Explorer Window and now litter my timeline when all I really needed was one small section. But you can't perform any editing functions per se or (I think at least) apply any effects. So I'll use it for those really long clips that I only need one small part of... (as if anyone cares ;_0)

"Trimmer", despite what it may actually do (region selection, etc), is the historic name for this tool.

The trimmer works into the workflow of the way editing has been done since film was first passed through a "trimmer" (who was actually a person) who cut the negative and passed to the sequencer who put all the scenes in order.

It is pretty much same with linear video editing, where you review a clip, determine the in-out of a clip, and send the selected region to be recorded to a tape one clip after another.

In NLE (non-linear editor) terms, the trimmer metaphor still remains. A person would select the region of a clip they wanted to go into the final sequence in the trimmer. Then they put it into the sequence/timeline. The timeline serves as more of a "clean-room" of sorts, where only the regions of clips you want in the final cut would be placed.

As you may notice, the first two editing processes are pretty much a one-shot deal (especially for film, as you can erase and start over on video). With NLE, however, such restrictions are no longer there and thus many who come to an NLE without any 'traditional' editing experience (or experience on other NLEs where the trimmer is a nearly 'mandatory' part of the workflow) will not know the legacy or worth of such tools.

While I use the trimmer because its the workflow that suits me most, I would say that as NLE truly do not have the limitations of older editing methods, the user has more freedom to do what they wish with it and work with it in their own way. I cannot stress enough that all these things are simply tools. Being comfortable and effective with a tool is all that's important, not how everyone else uses it. If you feel comfortable with the way you use vegas, and your workflow is the most effective and efficient for YOU, then you should use it no other way. But at the same time, I encourage all to at least try all the tools you have at your disposal to determine whether your way is in fact the best way.

I never use it. Its there because a few asked for it. It was originally there, then became hidden, (you had to know how to unhide it) and in the last several versions its back again. Different strokes, for different folks I guess. AFAIK the trimmer doesn't do anything you can't do directly from the timeline. Kind of like keyboard shortcuts. Some people love them, others never use them or rarely.

I used to use it until I became more familiar with how to trim right on the time line. A long time ago, I used Media Studio Pro and the trimmer was the way to get the exact portion of a particular clip onto the time line. This habit carried over to VV.

I'm not sure there is a practical purpose toward using the trimmer these days.

I find the trimmer comes into its own with certain longer form jobs. For instance, I have about five hours of interviews and support footage for one job.

I capture each tape - about an hour - as a single clip, then have to decide, over a number of weeks, both on my own and in the client's office, how to put the various interview responses together into a programme.

To help this, I open, say, Tanya's tape in the trimmer, and each time I identify a response that may be worth including, I make it into a region, give it a meaningful name (e.g. A01 "Mum was never home"). This region is now saved as if it were a separate clip, and is accessible in Region view in Explorer. It can be lifted straight to the timeline from there, or opened in the trimmer for further adjustment.

I also supply the client with a VHS dub with timecode. This same camera timecode is also displayed in the trimmer (and timeline) thumbnails, so if the client writes down chosen IN and OUT points, I can very quickly find these in the Trimmer and make it into a Region.

When it comes to assembling the finished program, it's a simple process of finding a saved region, lifting it to the timeline and making final adjustments regarding its juxtaposition with surrounding clips, transitions, support footage etc.

The biggest advantage of this method over capturing separate clips is the flexibility - I always have access to ALL my footage, so I can easily find what I want, and I can change my mind easily without having to search and recapture more clips.

The Trimmer is so much better than the Source window in Premiere and other NLEs. It allows you to instantly see thumbnails of an hour's footage, PLUS the audio waveforms, which are a great help in finding when someone began/stopped talking.

For other types of jobs I may never use the trimmer - it's one of many tools that's available if it suits a particular way of working.

Is there a trimmer in Vegas? Can someone tell me how to avoid it?

I don't use the trimmer and have *rarely* used it in any NLE I have worked with. Having said that I also rarely use the 'source' window in NLE's that have one. For me I was used to cutting on film where every shot was cut out, marked and hung in a bin. Combine that with cutting audio and laying the tracks out I really didn't find the concept of NLE's too overwhelming as long as they had tracks. I would think the concept of NLE's having a source window and an edit window came from the set up that off line video editing has and while it works great with video, when I use a NLE I really don't care to have that 1 or 2 hour virtual tape to go through.

I sort of use the best of both worlds - I view the tape, log it with the shots in and out points, and then "print the circled takes" so to speak. Because I have a log if I need a shot I can always go back and capture a shot if I need too.
With VV I have never used anything but the timeline for editing. In Premiere I think I used the trimmer/source window maybe 2 times. With D/Vision you sort of had to use the trimmer to do effects and edit wise it was very comparable to a tape set up so you couldn't really drag and drop. But you could log the shots with a keystroke and that would break up the scenes. Actually I really liked the logging method come to think of it...it was sort of like what belsokar uses the trimmer for. But anyway - I like to only capture what I need to. Log first, capture second, edit on the timeline - assemble, rough cut, 2nd rough cut, fine cut, directors cut, producers cut, distributors cut. LOL!!!

Bear in mind also guys that Vegas isn't just a video program; the trimmer can be <very> useful for audio work. If say you've got a long voice session and need to quickly choose some takes, it can be very handy to load the event into the trimmer, whizz through and right want you want, and drag that small chunk onto a track.

Ben

I use it to break a long shot into multiple shorter shots without having to edit from the whole original clip every time on the timeline and then sticking those shorter clips together: I select in trimmer and drag it/stick it against other clip directly from trimmer.
Saves time.

Just curious for all who DON'T use the trimmer:

What is your process?
Especially for long projects consisting of multiple pieces of footage.

Just interested to hear how life without the trimmer is 'better' (maybe it is :))

As far as my tongue-in-check comment about avoiding the trimmer, it wasn't really meant to diss the concept. I just have never found a use for it, but I bet there are power-users here who DO put it to good use. However, as some of the posts here said, this was mainly put in for people coming in from older NLEs and to replicate the way film was cut in the old days.

I recently had five hours I had to edit that was fairly linear. So I captured an hour at a time, made preliminary cuts to bring the hour down to about 30 minutes, then did color-correction, then saved as avi. Same with the succeeding 4 hours. Finally I combined all 2&1/2 hours on the time-line and made final cuts, titles, effects, etc.

Who knows, if I started poking around in the trimmer I might find it saves time with shoots that have scenes all over the place, but I just haven't seen a post yet that convinces me to use it. The important thing in Vegas is to experiment with different things and then find those that work best for you. I'm a little lazy at times, want to get right to it and the trimmer just seems like overhead I don't want to get into.

P.S. Reminds me that when Premiere came out with it's storyboard concept at first it seemed cool, but eventually I just found it to be more overhead I didn't need.

Untill seeing 'dratme's' post regarding the trimmer, I've been at a loss to see its value, but the ability to be able to rename smaller clips from larger AVI files. will be invaluable to me. Thanks 'dratme' for the excellent explaination.

Try an edit a music video with about 5-7 hours of various footage and picking the best parts for a song. The trimmer saved my but because one I started playing around with it saved my lots of time. I agree if you are doing just simple cuts from point A - B then it really isn't needed but if you have tons of diffrent shots like music videos have and you want to replace a five second clip with something else this is why I beleive it is here. You don't have to throw it on the timeline just find the part you need and just scrub through the clips and add it. I couldn't imagine Vegas would be able to call it's self a PRO NLE with out it. It's great if you don't need it but many people actually do and that is why it is there.

I still think it is a hold over from the tape - you just now have the tape as a virtual tape, only on your hard drive. I am cutting a film right now with about 15 hours of interviews and about another 40 hours of footage. I log it and "print circled takes" because i don't find any need, or want, to put almost 60 hours of footage onto my hard drive(s). I am thinking maybe it is just a matter of who does what and what the structure is by the time it gets to the editor. If you just get hours and hours of footage tossed at you with no shot list, script or the AC's notes than maybe you feel more comfortable with digitizing all of it and doing what many seem to do - use the trim window to mark out the shots. I am basiclly doing the same thing by logging the shots and only picking out the "good" takes to digitize.

This whole discussion is outstanding, for a relative newbie. Many examples of what the trimmer may be good for, and what it is not, and why.

For the last three months, we've only been stringing together clips of legal depositions. Not much editing desired or allowed! About the extent of it has been using the "s" and Delete key to "redact" snips and the front and end of a clip that are not officially on the record.

OK, so now that we've made the DVD writer, digital camcorder and Vegas software pay for themselves, we'll be doing some fun stuff this summer. I think the most likely way I'll be using the trimmer is: 1) picking out pertinent bits of long, dull video shoots, such as a model rocket launch, and 2) selecting passages of music to loop, such as repeating a verse or chorus, in order to make a sound track match up with the length of a video segment. Oh, and it'll allow me to open a long video and create a different long video on the timeline. I *was* planning to open the source video in the timeline, and copy pieces/parts to the media pool, close the source video in the timeline, and reassemble what I wanted by putting together clips from the media pool. I think mastering the trimmer will cut the time involved by quite a lot.

Good stuff! Thanks, y'all!
Peyton

I use it for the region saving feature, but I also use it because it is the only way to see the names of markers that have been embedded into a media file.

Vegas 4 has a new feature that lets you see and snap to embedded markers on the timeline. If only you could turn on a feature that would show the names of these markers on the timeline, then I wouldn't have to consult the trimmer every time I wanted to know the name of a marker.

As for the trimming, I usually trim on the timeline, but when the project is complex there isn't always room to trim on the timeline efficiently. It's those times I'm grateful to have that tool.

If you lose sync on a piece of video, or maybe even lose the related audio completely, (which just happened to me) you can select the clip on the timeline, right click to "open in trimmer" and the media will appear there with the in and out points of the clip marked. Select the marked region and replace the clip, with the missing audio, to the timeline. Easy fix!

As a former film editor, I think I would use the trimmer in Vegas a bit more if it wasn't so clumsy. I just don't like it----Having said that, there is very little else that I don't like about Vegas and have used it pretty exclusively for my DV projects.