If you want to start an edit on a camcorder at a precise time, you need to know exactly how much your camcorder backs up when you press the record button. For instance, on my camcorder, if I advance one frame at a time until the timecode reads 0:01:00:00 (one minute into the tape), then if I begin recording, the tape actually backs up ten frames to 0:00:59:20 and begins recording at that point. Thus, the first step in making a frame-accurate recording is to know how far the tape backs up. The easiest way to figure this out for your deck is to record a few seconds of a video you create that consists of nothing but the frame numbers (i.e., each frame of video is 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). You then advance to some number and begin recording some new video. Make note of the number where you started recording. When you play back the tape, go one frame at a time over the edit point and see which is the last number displayed. Subtract this from the number where you started and this is the pre-roll. Then, whenver you start an edit, go this many frames beyond the edit before you stop the tape.

You will also need to determine your "Record Engage Delay." This is a value that you enter in the Video Capture Preferences "Print to Tape" tab. It specifies how many frames after Vegas starts printing to tape before your tape deck actually starts recording. This is specified in terms of number of frames. You can measure this by setting this value to zero, and then printing to tape that same test footage you created in the step above, with a number for each frame, starting with 1. If you play back the tape after the print to tape has finished, you will find that a few frames are missing. On my Sony camcorder, this is seven frames.

With these two figures, you can get pretty close to "frame-accurate" insert editing. Don't expect miracles, but in my experience with my Sony camcorder, I can usually hit it right on; I've never been off by more than one frame.

John,
that's quite bit of useful info. I'm doing this on a DSR-11 BTW.

Unfortunately it doesn't address the issue of how to setth TC I want to start recording at into VV, It just will not let me change it from the current tape position, that's the bit I cannot figure out.

I didin't exaclt need fame accuracy, I've got at least 12 frames of black either side of what needed to b replaced.

To insert arecording, take the tape to the position required, and place on pause. Have Vegas ready to PTT and the PTT will start at the pause. make sure when you exit the recording, your recording is not to short or long so as to over-run or expose previous work.

I would do a test on a different tape as there is an adjustment vegas to make sure the recording starts corrrectly, this allows for pre-roll, as the above mail mentions.

I have done this before and works fine, also good for adding at end of videos when top & tailing.

Unfortunately it doesn't address the issue of how to setth TC I want to start recording at into VV, It just will not let me change it from the current tape position, that's the bit I cannot figure out.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Did zcheema's answer address your question? I would have said pretty much the same thing in answer to you question above.

AFAIK, the device timecode window simply displays the current timecode of the connected DV deck/cam. It seems that it's more of an informational feature than functional.

Would be nice if you could use it to cue up your deck tho.

John,
what Jive has to say is exactly the issue. I know I can manually position the tape where I want the recording to start however on a VCR without jog control that isn't easy (IE DSR11). The edit controllers that Sony made years ago can achieve this, I cannot see why VV cannot do the same thing.

It knows the current tape position, I believe via 1394 it can tell the VCR where to position itself etc. We just seem to be missingie the control capability. Or maybe I'm getting confused with what can be done with 422 machine control. I know VV doesn't support that and maybe SoFo were wise enough to know that doing insert edits via 1394 wasn't reliable enough.

All I want to be able to do is specify an insert point in VV, have it move the tape to that position and put the deck into record and record the clip starting at that point. I know there maybe issues with preroll etc but I'd be happy even if it was 6 frames out. At the moment trying to position the tape within six frames is nigh impossible using the controlls on the deck.

Correct, VV does not have that kind of machine control. Few consumer software applications do.

Dave T2

I have a Sony D1000E deck, which I think is a fair bit cheaper than the DSR11, and it's MiniDV only, not DV Cam too.

It doesn't have jog/shuttle, but once you get near the required point it has buttons to allow you to nudge the tape backwards or forwards a frame at a time. Does the DSR11 not have something similar?

All I want to be able to do is specify an insert point in VV, have it move the tape to that position and put the deck into record and record the clip starting at that point. I know there maybe issues with preroll etc but I'd be happy even if it was 6 frames out. At the moment trying to position the tape within six frames is nigh impossible using the controlls on the deck.

farss,

I guess this must depend on the camcorder/deck. On my Sony TRV-11, I can use the remote control to slow-mo forward and back to get close, and then, after I pause, I can use the frame advance to go forward and back one frame at a time. I can get it to the exact frame almost as quickly as using a jog shuttle. The deck is definitely on that frame. The only thing that keeps me from getting frame accurate edits is that the camcorder's pre-roll is not consistent. However, it is usually within +- 1 frame.

I think you might have the answer there guys. I just got bak fro playing projectionist but I'll try the deck in the morning. I hadn't thought of putting it into Pause and then try frame advance. The only other thing I've sort of tried doing this on are machines with those nice Jog/Shuttle controls.

Bit what really threw me was that VV can start / stop capture at precise frame numbers although I suppose throwing a deck into record is a more complex and error prone process.