I have not tried it yet but it seems this may adversely affect quality.

Try it with one clip and see what happens.
If it works, then you'll be pleasantly surprised and can get to work on the rest of them.

Mike

If you are only going to DVD with these, and not mixing any other video elements. the field order does not matter. Just make the MPEG file match the DV file. Normally DV is lower field, but QT is not very smart when it comes to field order. It does not matter what field order the MPEG file is, as long as it matches the source.

Dave T2

When I do render the result strobes confirming my feeling that the flag is wrong.

This suggests to me that it is not field order, but a field reversal issue, as is stated in the subject line. This happens when the lower field from frame 2 is interlaced with the upper field from frame 1, etc.

Anyway, if anyone knows how to fix it in Vegas, it will be johnmeyer.
[cue John stage right]

[meyer enters stage right]

Try the simple fix first:

Go to the Media Pool, right-click on the media, select Properties, and in that dialog, change the Field Order from upper to lower.

To test if this has fixed the problem, select a small portion of the video and then render that small portion, using the standard render settings you would normally use to create your final output. Burn this to a DVD+RW or DVD-RW disc, play it and see if all is well.

When dealing with field reversal, don't change either the project settings or the Render As settings from what you would normally use. Neither of those will make any difference.

About 90% of the time, telling Vegas to change the field order by doing what I describe above will fix the problem. However, I have run across video -- and it is usually video that has been converted between PAL and NTSC -- where the field reversal is more complicated, and extends across frames, rather than being a simple field reversal within each frame.

This is what musicvid described in his post above.

In this case, the only way I know to deal with it is through an AVISynth script, something that most people don't want to deal with. So, try the extremely simple fix recommended above, and then let us know if that works. If it doesn't, I'll post my two AVISynth scripts that I use to correct really difficult or unusual field problems.

[edit]
Since I may not remember to check back on this thread, here is the script for reversing fields across frames.

#This script reverses fields



#Modify this to point to the video file you use. 



AVISource("E:\frameserver.avi")



#Use whichever line below matches the source video



#source=AssumeTFF()

source=AssumeBFF()



even=source.trim(1,0).separatefields().selecteven

odd=source.separatefields().selectodd

interleave(odd,even)

fixed=weave()



#In the line below, use the OPPOSITE of what you chose above 

#because the fields have now been reversed.



AssumeTFF(fixed)

#AssumeBFF(fixed)



#Use the line below if you actually want to look at individual fields

#You will immediately be able to detect if the video has the correct field

#dominance. It the fields are reversed, each field will "jitterbug" back and

#forth from the adjacent fields.



#Separatefields()

Yeah, John!
I am reminded of something I once knew every time I read one of your responses. Whatever memory pill you're on, I'd like some!

Hello
Thank you all for the suggestions.
John, I already tried the quick fix. As mentioned in my OP Quicktime files do not allow you into the properties to fix things such as field order or the 16x9 anamorphic flag which is also missing.
I have not used Avisynth but will probably have to learn now.
Will it work the same with .mov files?

One other thing I have been wanting to ask you is.
How do you remember so much technical detail?
I am a tech with what I regard as a good memory but I marvel at your ability to recall tips and fixes.
If you have a method, other than pure memory, of sorting and filing your knowledge I would appreciate you sharing your method with us.
Thanks
Malcolm

As mentioned in my OP Quicktime files do not allow you into the properties to fix things such as field order or the 16x9 anamorphic flag.Now that is unusual.

I don't have QuickTime installed on my main computer, but I found a laptop that has Vegas and QuickTime and so I put an MOV on the timeline. I was able to access the field order and PAR fields and change them. I've never seen them grayed out. Of course an MOV file, like AVI, is a container, and mayber there is something in the underlying structure of your particular MOV that prevents Vegas from changing the flag.

Have you tried just dropping the MOV file into a new Vegas project and seeing what happens? Also, what version of Vegas are you using? I tried it on 7.0d.

But, if you can't change it, you can't change it. AVISynth will eventually get you where you want to go, but an intermediate step might get you there faster. What you can do is to install Satish's frameserver (from Debugmode.com). It shows up in the Render As dialog, and you simply "render" your entire project to a dummy AVI file. This takes about ten seconds, because all it does is create the first frame of the render and then set up a signpost.

You then open a second instance of Vegas, and put the rendered AVI file into that version. You should definitely be able to change the PAR and field order there.

Actually an even simpler approach might be to put just the MOV file into a new Vegas project. Then serve that out using the frameserver. Finally, open a second instance of Vegas and then open the project that contains this MOV file. Then, use the Vegas "replace" function to replace all occurrences of the MOV file with the AVI file. That way, you won't have to re-do your project (maybe).

I am still puzzled that you are shut out from changing those fields.

As to remembering things, I am 57, but can still remember, from high school calculus in 1969, how to integrate an equation by parts (for x * sin(x) and similar equations). I can remember the phone number of the girl I dated in 1968. However, I cannot remember people's names (which was a real problem when I was in marketing and sales) and often forget what day it is. I can't explain it. I guess it is what makes me a geek.

My son is the one with the truly fascinating mind. I can't figure him out at all.

Malcolm, is this of any help for you?
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=671694

Go to the Media Pool, right-click on the media, select Properties, and in that dialog, change the Field Order from upper to lower.

I have used this methoed a lot of times with great succes on many different files rendered out of FCP. I do it on the clip on the timeline, where I edit the properties, but I guess it should be the same wheter you do it in the media pool or on the timeline.

Sorry, cannot tell you why it does not work for you.

/Ulf

Hello John
Thank you for your additional info. I was actually using Vegas 8.0a.
I just realised that machine was not updated to 8.0c.
I have just figured out why I could not change the video properties.
It is a bit embarrassing really. I should slow down and read the screen more carefully.
When selected in the Project Media all except one of the files show the Audio attributes on the top line at the bottom of the tab so when you right click and select properties it shows the Audio properties.
To see the Video properties you have to select Video 1 in the Stream box.
You can then change the PAR and Field order.
In the mean time I re-rendered the files using Final Cut and Compressor as I was running out of time.
For some strange reason Final cut was reading the same files as LFF and they were rendering correctly.
I made a test DVD with 5 different methods and that was the only one of my methods that worked.
My suggestion of rendering an AVI and then changing the flag did not work as the flag on the source material was wrong.
I will try out your other suggestions as I need to expand my capabilities.
One suggestion I would make is that I think it is probably necessary to set the Field order in Render/Custom properties to match the source material.
It makes no difference to the DVD as it doesn't appear to use the flag but if that MPEG file is ever re-imported into Vegas or any other NLE then using the wrong field setting could cause the same problem again.

Once again, thank you for giving of your time and expertise.
By the way your memory sounds quite like mine. I am 61 and use phone numbers and number plates from a few decades ago for access codes. Like you I forget names almost as soon as I hear them and have to make a special effort to remember them.
Thanks
Malcolm

One suggestion I would make is that I think it is probably necessary to set the Field order in Render/Custom properties to match the source material.
Actually, this isn't necessary. Vegas can change the rendered field order without any problems. Vegas' output has never been implicated in a field reversal issue afaik, assuming the input is correct.

t makes no difference to the DVD as it doesn't appear to use the flag.
The DVD spec allows UFF, LFF, and Progressive and yes, it does read the flag in order to set the player output.

As John mentioned, the field reversal issue seems to crop up more with PAL->NTSC conversions. It would be interesting if someone who does a lot of these would look into why it happens.

Malcolm said that FCP was reading the field order of the Quicktimes correctly, but Vegas wasn't.

I have a similar but almost opposite problem: when I make quicktimes the field order is reversed, so when FCP opens it you get the mixed-up-field-order-jitters.

I did some testing, by rendering out different source framerates to SD quicktimes lower field first and here's what I found:

60i (lower field first) and 30p both interlace nicely.
60i (upper field first) and 24p both interlace wrong.

Mostly I was using Motion JPEG. What's interesting is that if you click 'configure' you can set the field dominance to 'even' or 'odd.' So I tested out all the framerates again and this setting did not affect the results at all-seemed to do nothing.

I could not figure it out, so I have been avoiding Quicktime from Vegas all together.

kairosmatt