How to handle big project?

joost-berk wrote on 4/18/2024, 2:04 PM

Hey all,

I was wondering if I am the only one having issues with big projects. Right now we are working on some projects that contain lots of clips. I talk about 200 plus media events. From XAVC-i (UHD) clips, WAV files, Prores with alpha-layers. We usually run these projects from our super speed NAS over 10Gbe. But working in the project gets so sluggish, that I started testing this on different setups. So with all local files on an high speed NVME SSD. With both Intel en Nvidia GPU's, it doesn't make a difference. The issues I run into are these;

- Starting a big project takes a few minutes (even when running all files on local drives)

- Editing (timeline rubbing) gets verry sluggish. Especialy when zooming in our out. Vegas just hangs for seconds.

- By adding audio-busses and VST's I am not able anymore to render. The render dialog starts, but nothing happens.

- When rendering only video, clips got strangs jitter. I turned of GPU decode, but this gave me a offset in audio/video sync. I swapped all files to Prores versions, This helpt me to render properly, but there was a gamma inconsistency between the original XAVC-i file and the Prores file. Prores was created with Adobe Media Encoder.

So again, I am running in to this issues with all my editing systems. And I am wondering if more people experience this? I am running VP21update3.

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Comments

xberk wrote on 4/18/2024, 4:02 PM

Do these problems emerge when you have much smaller projects? Is there some reason you can't work with smaller sections? I've found, over the years, it pays to work in smaller sections, five to ten minute timelines.

 

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RogerS wrote on 4/18/2024, 7:24 PM

If the issues are new to build 300 I'd return to 208 as it's the last stable build.

Enabling legacy AVC decoding may help to return to the behavior 208 had.

The gamma inconsistency may be issues with 300 not reading file metadata? Right click on the media and see if it's "undefined" for color ranger. You may have to manually tell it full range if that's what the source file is.

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joost-berk wrote on 4/19/2024, 1:56 AM

Do these problems emerge when you have much smaller projects? Is there some reason you can't work with smaller sections? I've found, over the years, it pays to work in smaller sections, five to ten minute timelines.

 

When the projects are smaller, the issues are much less, say non. But the lag starts when projects grow. The edited timeline, where i'm talking about is only 5 minutes.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro (Latest version)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X

RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz

GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR (Latest Studio Driver)

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K (or Nvidia HDMI for 4K HDR)

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch

joost-berk wrote on 4/19/2024, 1:58 AM

If the issues are new to build 300 I'd return to 208 as it's the last stable build.

Enabling legacy AVC decoding may help to return to the behavior 208 had.

The gamma inconsistency may be issues with 300 not reading file metadata? Right click on the media and see if it's "undefined" for color ranger. You may have to manually tell it full range if that's what the source file is.

Thanks for the tip! About the Legacy GPU, is what I will try today. And changing metadata of the prores will help me.

Keeps me wondering what I can do to edit and render smoothly in big projects.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro (Latest version)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X

RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz

GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR (Latest Studio Driver)

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K (or Nvidia HDMI for 4K HDR)

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch

RogerS wrote on 4/19/2024, 4:03 AM

Did it work well in 21.200? If so I'd return to that as various issues, including performance, are worked out. It read file metadata properly and its main decoder was what is now considered "legacy" in 21.300.

Another workaround is to created "nested projects" where you save sections as .veg files and can open them like media on a master timeline. This can be really handy for complex timelines and even to reuse sections in multiple projects.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

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Try the
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Wolfgang S. wrote on 4/19/2024, 4:04 AM

I would like to know more about the footage you use. Maybe you can post here some printouts of Mediainfo?

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HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

joost-berk wrote on 4/19/2024, 4:16 AM

I would like to know more about the footage you use. Maybe you can post here some printouts of Mediainfo?

This is the "General" Tab (File Properties) of a typical clip in my timeline;

General
  Name: TimmerTV_FX9-15319.MXF
  Folder: J:\Royal A-Ware\Wervingscampagne 2024\20240319-Wervingsvideo_Andrea_&_Linda\CAPTURE\FX9 CAPTURE
  Type: MAGIX MXF
  Size: 1,03 GB (1.057.616.944 bytes)
  Created: woensdag 20 maart 2024, 10:34:41
  Modified: zaterdag 25 mei 2019, 08:21:26
  Accessed: donderdag 18 april 2024, 15:07:09
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 00:00:33,640, 25,000 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, MXF
  Audio: 00:00:33,640, 48.000 Hz; Mono, LPCM

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: mxcompoundplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 21.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mxcompoundplug
  Format: MAGIX MXF
  Version: Version 21.0 (Build 300)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

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CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X

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Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K (or Nvidia HDMI for 4K HDR)

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joost-berk wrote on 4/19/2024, 4:18 AM

Changing the File I/O settings to: "Use Legacy AVC decoder" didn't resolve the jittering issues with the output rendering.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro (Latest version)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X

RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz

GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR (Latest Studio Driver)

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K (or Nvidia HDMI for 4K HDR)

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch

Wolfgang S. wrote on 4/19/2024, 4:46 AM

Are you aware that there is a general issue with MXF files, at the moment with b300?


You write about jittering - maybe that is the reason why you see that. But I do not know, if your FX9 footage has that too (I have not seen that with FS7 footage).

The development team works on that issue.

 

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

joost-berk wrote on 4/19/2024, 4:59 AM

Are you aware that there is a general issue with MXF files, at the moment with b300?


You write about jittering - maybe that is the reason why you see that. But I do not know, if your FX9 footage has that too (I have not seen that with FS7 footage).

The development team works on that issue.

 

Let me check some clips of the FS7 and FX3.

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro (Latest version)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X

RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz

GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR (Latest Studio Driver)

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K (or Nvidia HDMI for 4K HDR)

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch

Wolfgang S. wrote on 4/19/2024, 8:04 AM

As said, it seems to be more an issue with MXF files generated by Canon cameras, I have not seen it for the FS7.

But maybe it would be worthwile, if you have a short file from your FX9, to give us an upload of an original file - to check that for the bug fix.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

joost-berk wrote on 4/19/2024, 9:12 AM

As said, it seems to be more an issue with MXF files generated by Canon cameras, I have not seen it for the FS7.

But maybe it would be worthwile, if you have a short file from your FX9, to give us an upload of an original file - to check that for the bug fix.

I've been searching the forum and it is indeed an issue with the MXF wrappers. MXF is a format that we always use, so maybe the slowdown in performance is due to that, but I have to test this better.

For now I rolled back to build 208, because we need to work on a stable version. I hope that the Vegas Team will come with a good version soon!

Vegas Pro user since version 1.2

OS: Windows 10 Pro (Latest version)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X

RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz

GPU: Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Super 8GB GDDR (Latest Studio Driver)

Monitoring: Black Magic Design DeckLink SDI 4K (or Nvidia HDMI for 4K HDR)

Audio: M-Audio M-Track Eight ASIO

Controller: Behringer X-Touch