the upconverting player I have converts all SD to wide too (stretch).


here's an idea: setup your DVD player to letterbox the footage & see what it does. When I put my DVD player on a 4:3 monitor everything was stretched tall that was 16:9 (wall-e). I had to put the DVD player in letterbox mode because it wouldn't do what it wanted to do. You may have to do the same thing.

Here's the proof as best I can capture it, taking photos of a CRT is not my speciality:

From LOTR. Note the white rectangles.

From a DVDA created 16:9 DVD, white rectangle is not there!

Not that this really helps the OP other than he might now know what's causing the problem. It does show the advantage of having a 'broadcast' monitor compared to a TV. Without a monitor that can show that information I'd never have been able to verify my hunch. A good waveform monitor that lets you select which line to view would have also shown this.

Bob.

TheHappyFriar,
> I had to put the DVD player in letterbox mode because it wouldn't
> do what it wanted to do. You may have to do the same thing.

My agenda is simple, all I want to do is to edit my 16:9 video in Vegas, burn DVDs using DVDA, and send them to my audince and be sure that the videos look good on the kind of TV sets people have around here where I live, using the DVD players ordinary people here use. Far from all wide screen TVs in the shops here are real 16:9, many of them are more 14:9 kind of monitors.

Using other words: The TV people seem to have often have a different aspect ratio than my Canon HF 10 camera. So there really is no choice, either the picture will be distorted, or it ill be letterboxed.

The funny thing is that when they put a commercial DVD in the player, it looks great on their TV sets, like the LOTR movies. So - all I want is to achieve the same with the videos I make.

And Bob,
> A good waveform monitor that lets you select which line to
> view would have also shown this.
This is almost greek to me :-)
But if it would help me.. Good!

"Using other words: The TV people seem to have often have a different aspect ratio than my Canon HF 10 camera. So there really is no choice, either the picture will be distorted, or it ill be letterboxed. "

Unfortunately to some extent you could be right here. Not that I've actually ever hooked anything up to such a TV but I do know they exist. The one you own that's causing all your grief is hopefully a bit of an oddity. Certainly my own SD 16:9 TV has 4 choices for aspect ratio. With the LOTR DVD I can get the TV to get rid of some of the bars by slightly cropping off the edges ("Cinema"). Or I can adjust the framing for subtitles ("Subtitle"). To get it to just display 16:9 the menu option is "Full" and 4:3 is "Normal". No wonder consumers are confused.
The same goes for our old Bravias at work.

Bob.

Bob,
>Not that I've actually ever hooked anything up to such a TV but I do know they exist.
>The one you own that's causing all your grief is hopefully a bit of an oddity.

Here from one of the largest dealers in Norway Expert Radio TV
(Expert is similar to Radio Shack in USA )

A LOT of TVs in the shops here, and thereby in peoples homes, are 14:9 and not 16:9, you can easily see it with the naked eye. Philips, LG and Dantax are best-sellers. Actually, in most of the homes I have been, they tend to have 14:9 and not 16:9. I will refine my "research" during the coming weekend :-)

My agenda is simple, all I want to do is to edit my 16:9 video in Vegas, burn DVDs using DVDA, and send them to my audince and be sure that the videos look good on the kind of TV sets people have around here where I live, using the DVD players ordinary people here use. Far from all wide screen TVs in the shops here are real 16:9, many of them are more 14:9 kind of monitors.

I've been doing that for months with SD & HD. I never did anything special, I sould captured, edit, burn & play. Only time there was an issue with when the player or TV had an incorrect setting. IE my parents had their TV setup for Zoom to watch 4:3 broadcast over HDTV w/o as much black & I had my DVD setup for 16:9 vs letterbox. All this is in the manual's of the appliance. I've even watched my DVD's on my comp with no issues.

So, odds are a setting is wrong on the DVD player or TV. Doesn't matter what aspect ratio the set it, if it's not 16:9 & you're watching 16:9, it's either letterbox or piller box. Your 14:10 TV would be letterbox, so you should see if your DVD player is setup accordingly. Did you try it? If that works then anyone with a 14:10 TV needs to setup the DVD player for letterbox, that simple.

Here is my DVD player: Philips-DVP3350V
It has two settings, 4:3 and 16:9.
Using 4:3 I do get letterbox, but too much the other way, the picture is a narrow band, and stretched way out of proportions on the x-axis, besides of poor resolution.

> Your 14:10 TV would be letterbox
I think my TV is a very poor quality TV, and that most 14:9 TVs will handle it correctly. I will make a test round during the weekend, and check how other TVs handle my DVD.

it's a 14:10 tv, not 9. But from the looks of it your DVD player is the issue.

Every DVD player I've had (NTSC land) has a "4:3", "letterbox" & "16:9 option". 4:3 stretches whatever's pumped from the player to the TV as 4:3. If it's a 4:3 TV it stretches 16:9, if it's a LCDTV (all I've tried) it puts it as 16:9 BECAUSE the TV overrides it. It know it's a 16:9 signal. If I do 16:9, all 16:9 stuff to a 4:3 TV is stretched, all 16:9 to a LCDTV works, again, it overrides. Letterbox puts the 4:3 signal as 4:3 & puts a 16:9 as 4:3 with black bars around a 16:9 video. On a LCDTV it letter AND pillerboxes the video.

Because your TV can't get an override from the DVD's you make it's trusting your DVD player's settings (like my 4:3 monitor does) so it's just doing 16:9 or 4:3.

I've used cheap DVD players & ones ~$100, all the same results, all the same basic option menu's. I've used 4:3 TV's, monitors, HDTV's & SD LCD TV's. All same results.

Double check the player manual to see if it has a letterbox option. Could be because it's a duel-unit that it doesn't have one. Or maybe nothing in PAL land does?

This setting you're refrring to in the player you're using wrongly.

It tells the player if you have a 16:9 or 4:3 TV.
The player will take the correct action to match 4:3 or 16:9 content to the TV. I've tested this on many DVD players and TVs. It works correctly. Of course if you tell the player you have a 16:9 TV and you don't things will go badly wrong.

Again you also need to understand that the TV needs the correct signalling IN the video to display what the player is sending it. That's where the problem lies in this case. Nothing to do with the DVD player.

I note that others are saying they're having problems with the upscalers. If an upscaler detemines the video it's getting to be the wrong Pixel Aspect Ratio it'll very likely make a big mess of the upscaling.

Bob.

Bob.

This setting you're refrring to in the player you're using wrongly.

no, I'm not using it wrong, I'm using it right: letterbox (so my 16:9's are letterbox on my 4:3). I'm thinking it's his player is setup wrong, it needs to be letterbox since he doesn't have a 4:3 or 16:9 TV. but he says his player doesn't have the option.

I have not used this software, but look at this post about the IfoEdit program:

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/42_1.html

It appears to report the flag on or off.

Hope this helps.....

I think though you're overlooking one aspect of this.

On Ingvarai's TV, store bought 16:9 DVD's such as LOTR display perfectly correctly. His Vegas edited / DVDA authored ones do not.

He has his DVD player and TV setup correctly, If he didn't how can the 16:9 titles such as LOTR display correctly?
Following up from that as you'll notice I did some more detailed investigation and there appears to be difference in the video sent to the TV between my copy of LOTR and DVDs I've authored. If the difference I'm seeing is in what appears to be a aspect ratio flag then all is explained.

I now have someone digging me up their copy of the spec and a Tektronix waveform monitor that'll let us see each line of the video signal. I should also mention that this would not be the first time I've found an error in how DVDA handles 16:9. The last one I found also was not immediately apparent, it did not show up on my 16:9 TV at all.

Bob.

Bob,

Steve Mann has a point. I have already used this app before his post, and edited the INFO files and turned on and off 16:9 letterboxing and "patch" and "auto" and who knows what and burned uncountable DVD disks until I got so tired I realized there was no point. All looked the same, regardless. I have now made a couple of DVDs I will test with my friends and neighbors, to see what happens.

Let us forget about the DVDA for a while.. I cannot use the TV I bought for it's main purpose as well, namely as an external preview device for Vegas. The picture just does not look right. And the normal menu options (how scarce they still are) are not accessible at all when previewing from Vegas. (4:3, Wide and Auto).
When previewing from Vegas, the signal goes through firewire, and the Canopus 300 and is fed to the TV through component cables.

I will get another TV if the prevalent 14:10 TVs around here display my DVDA videos as they should. Off the top of my head, these 14:10 TVs do have more options, like the "Cinema" etc.

Why LOTR displays correct on my awkward TV set maybe has to do with the sheer power of the ring .. <g>

ingvarai