Hurry! Sale ends May 1st !!!

VU-1 wrote on 4/13/2002, 4:05 PM
(Thought I would post this here also since the test was done using VV3a.)

OK, guys. I have some ear candy for you.

I recently ran across the Crane Song Analog Dither CD & decided I needed to give it a shot. I added it to a few songs that I was mastering to see how it would affect the sound. The results I found were quite amazing.

The mixes I was working on sounded good to me before, but there seemed to be something missing. That something was depth & transparency. I was absolutely shocked at how much better they sounded after adding the dither. I had been using a dither plug-in at the end of the chain, but quickly deleted it after testing the CS dither CD. When I muted the dither track, the sound went flat (2-dimensional). With the dither track ON, the mix had depth & transparency.

With the help of a friend, I have prepared a little sample for everyone to hear. To listen for yourself, go to

Each clip is about 20-30 sec long. They are .wav files at 44.1/16 - I wanted to keep the fidelity as good as possible so the effect can be heard. A few of the files are a little large to download quickly, so I chopped them in half (part A & part B). For best results, you will need to import the files into your DAW & paste them back together.

There is a little bit of info about each clip preceeding it's link. I know this will be hard, but please try to ignore the out of tune guitar on test #2 (hey, I didn't record it, I only mastered it!). Incidentally, I did track, mix and master the clip on test #3 - hope you like it!

Have a good time listening and let me know what you think about it!!

Jeff Lowes
On-Track Recording


jpresley wrote on 4/13/2002, 8:04 PM
I did notice a difference on test 3. Not so much on the first
two. Your tracks are very dynamic and bright and clear to begin
I reviewed the site for this dither disk. How does it work within
the mix? Does the SF Dither fx do this same treatment?

VU-1 wrote on 4/13/2002, 8:34 PM
>>I did notice a difference on test 3. Not so much on the first

Listen again and focus on the highs. The biggest difference is in the background. In test #1, the hi-hat sounds like its splattering against a wall with the dither OFF. With it ON, it sounds like there is room behind the mix for the hat.

#2 has a bit of added texture to the sound with more depth & transparency.

>>How does it work within the mix?<<

You would add it in as another track & assign it to the master buss, un-processed.

>>Does the SF Dither fx do this same treatment?<<

No. I'd been using the SF dither plug-in at the end of the mastering chain already. It does help some, but not anywhere near what the Crane Song disc does. The CS dither gives much more depth, transparency and warmth than any dither plug I've used.

>>Your tracks are very dynamic and bright and clear to begin with.<<



jpresley wrote on 4/13/2002, 8:45 PM
Is the CS Dither a FX, DX type plug-in or an audio track added to the
audio mix? I do not understand the mechanics of how it works.
The CS Dither disk is purchased and then how is it used with your
audio mix?

VU-1 wrote on 4/13/2002, 10:13 PM
The CS dither CD is a Redbook CD with the dither noise on it as audio - just as any other regular CD.

You record the dither signal digitally into your DAW and mix it into your project as a separate track, reduce it by 25 dB & assign it to the Master buss and viola!, instant improvement. Kind of hard to believe, but you heard the difference.

On the web page, I gave the scenario of how I used it within VV3. Also, if you go to and look in the "Mastering" section, you will see several threads about this. There is some really good info there.

JoeD wrote on 4/14/2002, 1:38 AM
Ya know, now I know where the term TROLLING comes into play.

Good dithering should be as transparent as possible.

So, whaddya sellin mac?

doctorfish wrote on 4/14/2002, 2:23 AM
What exactly is "dither noise" and how does adding
a track of it improve the project sound?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought dithering was essentially
a reduction in bits, say from 24 to 16.
Am I over simplifying it?

I'll have to check out your samples and that other web site?


drbam wrote on 4/14/2002, 9:36 AM
Yes it is a "reduction of bits" and yes this would be oversimiplfying. But out of curiosity I checked out the Crane Song website:
and this analog dither product sure looks interesting. For only $30 It definitely seems worth checking out. Occasionally there really is a product that seems almost too good to be true and indeed turns out to be a winner! I took a look at the forums for more info on this and many folks there are raving about this product using terms like "miracle," etc. If anyone else here gets some experience with it, please post your comments/reviews.

Rednroll wrote on 4/14/2002, 4:47 PM
I believe what's wrong with this post is a misunderstanding of what "Dither" is. There's 2 types of "Dither" that always seems to get confused in these forums. There is a term known as "Dithering of bits"...this is the reduction of the bits "Dither". There is also the term known as adding "Dither noise". These 2 terms are totally different. The CD Jeff is refering to has to do with the "Dither noise". Dither noise is a very high frequency sine wave that you can't hear and it's amplitude is in the 1 bit resolution area. What adding dither noise to your mix will do is make fades more natural sounding. Otherwise when you do a fade, the audio get's down into that 1 bit resolution area and suddenly goes to 0 bits, before the amplitude is at 0 bits, due to resolution between the bits. Adding the dither noise to this makes it so the fade becomes more random because it get's mixed with the "dither noise" and the bits now randomly go from 0 to 1 and thus makes it so there isn't a drastic cut off, so your fade becomes more smoother. I believe you could actually create your own dither CD track by taking a blank wave file (ie digital O bits) and then add dither to that file, thus you've added the dither noise to nothing, leaving you with just the dither.

I've asked Beetle fan in the past to explain, what "Dither Noise" is, and he never replied, because he doesn't know what it is. Here's the explanation of what it is, and it shouldn't be confused with Dithering of bits.
VU-1 wrote on 4/14/2002, 7:41 PM
>>Ya know, now I know where the term TROLLING comes into play.

Good dithering should be as transparent as possible.

So, whaddya sellin mac?


This IS good dither, probably THE BEST.

BTW - I'm not sellin anything, mac. I simply found a tool that is awesome & thought I would pass it along to my fellow engineers out there. Glad I could help.

doctorfish wrote on 4/14/2002, 8:06 PM

Thanks for the info. It makes a lot more sense now.
I've seen some of those past threads in which you inquired
about Beetlefan's knowledge of dither noise, and at that
time I wasn't so sure myself.

I admit I've still got much to learn.
I've been recording as a musician for over 12 years,
but when it comes time to set up a studio and be the engineer,
there's a ton of stuff I never encountered when I was the one
in the recording booth, and well helping out as much as I could
during mixdown.

VU-1 wrote on 4/28/2002, 10:04 PM
There's no sale, really. I just wanted to get your attention.

However, anybody who still wants to check out the Crane Song Analog Dither CD test better do it now!!! The clips will be removed from the web site this Wednesday (May 1st)!

Foreverain4 wrote on 4/29/2002, 2:00 PM
do you have any further ideas on how to create your own dithering track? i created a new file in sound forge 5.0 and inserted 30 sec of silence. i then applied the sonic foundry dither with the shape 2, quantixation depth at 16 bit, and dither depth at 1 bit. i then saved it as a 16 bit 44.1k file and pulled it up along side a 16 bit 44.1 mixed wave. did notice some difference in the sound, but is this the same as applying the dither to the master output? could you, perhaps, create a new file in sound forge, insert silence to create a wave file? then use your synthesis tools to create white noise? hence creating your own dither. if so, what frequencies would be recomended for creating a dithering sine wave?

decrink wrote on 4/30/2002, 9:30 AM
If a dither 'addition' track is easy to make, maybe one of you engineers could make a quick one for us and post it. It does seem odd to pay $30 for a 0 bit noise file if that is what it is...
Foreverain4 wrote on 5/1/2002, 1:35 PM
you guys should really try messing with this. create your own dither noise track. i started messing around a bit yesterday with it. i am finding that noise at different frequencies produce different results when played back at -29db with a mixed stereo wave file. tonight i am going to mix all those frequencies together and play them back with the wave file. would someone else try doing this so that i know that my mind isnt putting something there that really isnt. ;)