Get epic from DVFilm for 5D MarkII and you don't have to transcode the files, you just drop them on the Vegas T/L and go.

Dave

Hi Dave,

But isn't it only for the 32 bit version of Vegas?
And will it make disssolves run smoothly?
And will it play smoothly when adding text too?

Will it run better with Epic DV compared to transcoding to MXF or Cineform?


Lars

The Mercury engine is really nice. I've been playing with Premiere Pro CS5 for a couple of days, and it's really smooth and works great (ATI 4870, i7 920 with 12GB RAM). Even on my single monitor editing system at home, it makes me covet real time GPU acceleration for Vegas even more.

But if I had to put up with the clunky interface and insantiy of PPro, I'd gouge my eyes out with a spoon. Seriously, the amount of decision making and panels that have to open up to create a simple clip to clip transition....I'd totally forgotten just how bad it was and why I was so desperate to migrate to Vegas all those years ago. Now I remember.

I really really really do want GPU acceleration for Vegas now though. If they did absolutely NOTHING to Vegas except stabilize it, and give it GPU accelerated video, I would be a VERY very very happy camper (and yes, I'd pay an extra few bucks for the privilege...just so I WOULDN'T ever be tempted to go back to PPro).

That said, I'm still using AE (since I have to do some weird composites and green screens). One last request: can someone please explain to clients that green screen doesn't necessarily make your production "more pro." Honestly, I had these guys walk in and say they wanted just a basic sit down interview, but it had to be green screened so they could put all sorts of cool backdrops in. ugh.

Yes, yes... The Vegas interface is certainly very straight forward and easy to deal with.

Dragging a clip and voilá - the crossfade is done! Etc. In PPro you have to drag the crossfade to the timeline.

Doing audio work in Vegas: fast and straight forward. Great...

However, in PPro it's a little easier to change properties and fine tune crossfades and stuff afterwards. There are pros and cons with every approach here...

You can look at this in many different ways. I think - perhaps - Vegas generally is faster, but there's less precision and a slightly more cluttered timeline. But I do think many find Vegas approach attractive.

If all the programs *performed* equally well and it was just a matter of chosing which interface you lliked best.... But to me, it's a matter of finding the editor that *WORKS* best and gives the best output *QUALITY* and that is most "RELIABLE*.

Here Vegas doesn't shine as things are now.

Still - I like the Vegas interface and approach very much but just wished some things worked better...

I think also there is a limit for how much real functionalitry and performance I'm willing to sacrifice just to have this "nice" interface... For every session in PPro ocr Avid, every session in Vegas now gives me mixed feelings: "feels familiar and nice" and "ouch, this really feels old an unreliable and stuttery etc"

Couple of questions....

Are you willing to sacrifice *image quality* for this easy and nice Vegas interface? My 5D2 files look better and are more accurately reprodiced when they are imported in PPro.

Are you willing to sacrifice *resolution* when working with 3D motion in stills in a project for the easy to use interface? Vegas has some strange bug (confirmed by SCS) that messes with the resolution and cause blurriness.

Are you willing to sacrifice reliable color and luminance reproduction / monitoring when importing AVCHD files for the easy to use interface? Read the link to David Newman etc where these problems are discussed.

Are you willing to sacrifice the possibility to actually *use* (in real time) color correction and 3D plugins? In PPro CS5 I can throw in my camera 5D2 files with *no* transcoding, insert color correction tools, do 3D stuff, *all* in real time with solid reliable playback / video preview.

Vegas: faster to edit...? Perhaps. Not necessarily. Somnetime yes, but also sometimes no.

If you include the extra transcoding time and the impossiblity to do real time correction / 3D stuff... no, then Vegas will sometimes be a much slower solution.

3D work. Impossible in real time in Vegas. Solution? Rendering out 3D manipulated files and re-importing them so that they can become playable objects in the timeline (if that's what you wish...).

PProd CS5 and Avid more difficult to use? Yes. Until you learn them. When you learn them and feel comfortable, no, they become familiar tools. You get used to a lot of things. Learning just half of the letters in the alphabet is easier than learning all of them. But it will be very limiting after a while.

If you have a lot of keyframes going and lots of stuff happening PPro isn't bad. Just different. Again, I wished Vegas was *working* properly as I like the unique direct approach of Vegas.

What I never get used to are:

- image quality issues (resolution / camera footage color profiling etc)
- Stutter and unreliable video playback
- Vegas crashing when I add 10-15 Canon 5D2 files in the timeline


So to some degree, I assume there is a limit for how much a really nice interface can cover up for basic lack of functionality here.

And - really -- will the very fastest PC with 24 gb ram and 4 x raid drives make it work as smooth as CS5? Will it *then* play streams of AVCHD with moving text, 3D work and dissolves etc. I think not. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Is setting up a new PC for 3000.- - 5000.- a sensible idea if it still doesn't give the same smooothness and performance as my Q6600 PC with a Cuda card today?

Feeling confident that what you see in the video preview is correct and enjoying the smooth ride is worth a lot. Dropping a camera file directly to the timeline and see how good it looks and how well it plays is nice too.

=============================================
I think with the Mercury and with what perhaps is arriving with Avid MC 5, Vegas is risking to feel "old" and outdated. In a way it feels old be already. Seeing something stuttering, seeing low resolution, not being able to plug in 3D plgins without sacrificing performance... well, that feels "old" if anything...

A nice cool intuitive interface is a poor replacement for accuracy in color, performance etc. if we are talking about a "pro" application that is.
=============================================


Last couple of months have been months of ambivalence - a feeling I'm sure I share with many others here. I really like Vegas and really want it to work. But I'm just seeing how it is way behind in very critical areas. And I'm beginning to realise and enjoy the immense benefits of real speed, reliablity, accuracy etc. It really is worth while to learn other NLE's and get a perspective.

At the end of the, if high quality work and results are the goals here, just an intuitive "nice" interface isn't enough.


Lars

Opampman wrote
Why would anyone shooting serious video use the AVCHD consumer format? Educate me?

AVCHD format is in the process of replacing HDV for lower level acquisition. Only a few professional cameras support the high level AVCHD codec so far, but AVCHD is the evolutionary step up over HDV.

I shoot promotional spots as well as event and wedding video. When I send out the video to the agency that comissioned it, it's sent as a Sony 50 Mbps 422 MXF file as converted from AVCHD in Vegas 8.0c. The AVCHD format works great for my business.

Lars, can you link to that _DAN_ post?

Rob

Having always been "independent" - that is I source and edit my own stuff - I've been an ardent Vegas fan for years. (YES - I'd love hardware acceleration and a way to "folder" timelines (to save screen space on the timeline), but a Vegas fan I am, I am...

until lately, I ran into this issue:
"Edit in Vegas and deliver uncompressed MOV. The FCP editor won't know the difference." (see above)
It's not so.

In the "old days" you could edit on many systems and then export an EDL (Edit Decision List) which most competing edit systems could read, interpret and deiliver.
I don't think this is possible anymore (is it?)

The reason for this issue is that while I LOVE Vegas - many of my new clients are editing on FCP. I can export a completed job just fine. But what I' need to be able to do, is create a preliminary edit here at home, bring in the EDL, and conform and complete in the client's edit system.

Is this possible? I think not (but would be so happy to be wrong!)
I understand that we can't transpose color corrections and advanced effects, but straight cuts and dissolves are no brainers since the days of linear editing.

v

Rob, here's that link:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/477804-vegas9d-firstlight-histogram-difference.html


Pls let us know what you think
Lars

>"The FCP editor won't know the difference."

>They just might if they ask for the project files :)

That's the problem. They want to be able to edit the project files.

Thanks Lars.

Rob

Great comparison... Sony Vegas 9 (a year old now) with CS5 out... what... a week or 2 ago? CS5 working a bit better? I should bloody well HOPE so.

Try comparing Vegas 9 with CS4... a slightly more realistic match

Yeah, I'd been waffling over whether to bring that up. Another log on the fire.

I suppose you could say that CS5 sets a bar for SCS to shoot for with Vegas Pro 10... but my expectations aren't that high.

Rob

I'd say CS5 pretty much rewritten from the ground up. Highly optimised to use the latest CPUs. Keep in mind it runs under Windows and OSX but only on the Intel Macs.
V9.0d, same old engine since day 1. Runs on anything off the smell of an oily rag.

Different approaches, different corporate ethos, different products aimed at different markets.

Now take the very attractive hull of Vegas, remove the steam engines and put in a set of Adobe's gas turbines and then you'd have a boat that'd take on all comers....at a price of course.

Bob.

Vic, earlier, someone suggested formatting a macdrive and exporting/saving the mov files on it, The FCP editor should be happy. Today, I usually just sent the files over the INTERNET if they are under 29gs or use Bluray(data, 50g) or flash-drive(their's) if its that critical.