General rule of thumb from a friend whose worked as a full on editor. One minute of content takes one hour of editing and he never did color grading or graphics, they were done by separate departments with their own specialists.

To look at it another way, a power saw cuts wood much faster than a hand saw. It still takes the same amount of time to decide where to make the cut though.

Bob.

bob's spot on as usual....

you could take the route i took with some of my more technically aware, pita clients. get THEM to sort out a comprehensive storyboard, better still, or knock out an edl. you just tidy up.

and if you think NLE is painful, you obviously never had to do this sort of stuff in an analogue online suite!!!

;-} leslie

good rule of thumb, thanks... right re analog... heck my first videos were ones I made by hitting the "pause" button on the vcr whenever I wanted to cut... such primitive times... now Vegas makes it a breeze... though still time consuming... at least the tools are easier to use, and fast..

-k

8 hours' work to get 28 minutes of final video produced, sheesh

My last project for a London organisation was 4 minutes long. It took me some 5 days to edit/composite/graphics/audio/foley.

What I'm taking from your comments Ken is that you ARE achieving a much higher standard to your work. We all try to work SMARTER. Sometimes, actually often, in this craft the more I know the more I want to exact more time on what I do. Yes, somethings are fast. Often turning an idea into reality can take humongous amounts of time.

Ah detail! Oh yes . . . .

Did you see my complex colour curve concoction I did for you yet? I spent maybe 3 hours trying out variations upon variations to achieve that. If I was a full time colour specialist, I would be faster - I aint!

Regards

Grazie

...... mean, yeah I'll pull six large from this easy
simple
hire an editor

Ken -

here's the scoop... you are burned out.

It's time to find an editor who can deliver what you need for the price you can pay.

You should be able to find a decent editor for $350 to $500 per day. If it takes 3 or 4 days to complete your project - well, you can figure out the math. But what you are missing is what YOU are worth.

If you were writing, producing and directing for ME, no way would I waste your time in the edit suite. I'd use your unique talents to be creating the NEXT great DVD set... NOT editing.

Now, your movies are instructional. Therefore they must have a logical beginning, middle and end. Probably a bunch of coherent chapters. This is not an art film or tour de force from an auteur. You have been looking into teleprompters, so I have to assume you've got a script. At the very least - an outline.Stick with directing for the time being, and hire an editor. You'll never look back.

BTW - being a writer, director, producter, editor "genius" myself - I know how hard it is to give up control. You don't have to. Tell the editor your concept. Give him/her the footage. Let him give you a rough cut - and make your suggestions. That's the way it's been done for nearly a century - in fact, it's only in the last 10 years that the technology has arrived to even make it POSSIBLE for "one guy to do it all".

If you've lost the "fire" (remember how excited you once were to EDIT!!", well, it's time to look for help. Hiring an editor for this gig, does NOT commit you to always doing it. Just until you get through this dry spot.

In the end you may find that while you understand editing, and can DO editing - well, you might not really LIKE editing. Or (worst case) - the guy you hire will screw things up so much that you'll get ticked off enough to finish it yourself - that happens too!

Do remember this, though - re the "business" part of "show business".

No one but a professional editor ever made money in the editing room. SAVE money? Yes! But if you're all fed up - it's time to give it a rest.

best,
v

Quickest and cheapest way to do what Ken is doing is to forget about using a NLE. Switch it live. Maybe run the wide cam in iso.

I had to quote a job a few months ago that required 3 cameras and a live feed to projection screens plus produce a DVD for sale of the event. Cost for the night for 3 cameras, van, CCU operator, director and switcher, if they really padded it out was $7K. At the end of the show I would have had it on Digibeta, all I would have had to do was add the head and tail and maybe some graphics and author the DVD.

Look at the guys selling DVDs of conferences, all switched live and by the time the crowd walks out they've got the DVDs ready to sell. Get the right gear and the right people and it's a dawdle. Try to skimp on costs and it becomes too expensive.

Bob.

In rethinking the process, Bob is exactly correct.

You've already got two cameras - get an inexpensive switcher and a Technical Director, and switch your shows live.

By keeping a roll of tape in each camera, you can make whatever changes are necessary, when you feel the TD missed the switch, but essentially, you're 90% done at the end of the shoot.

Plus you'll avoid your color problems, by identifying them "at the source" and correcting them immediately.

Let us know how you are proceeding.

v

Vic - thanks very much for your insights; you're right on the money as usual ... great idea to hire a solid video editor to help out, and/or doing the switching live to capture to create the DVDs on the fly... that would save a ton of time.... (thx Bob) ... the event is a lot of work, planning/marketing/delivering ... but it's the post in video that's 80% of the time...

You bring up some very interesting points, about where to focus work and how to get it done correctly. That's always the production bottleneck, in the edit bay, and right re control over editing process is still possible, with the help of a skilled editor... to free up time to work on creative processes vs the technical .. excellent ideas, thanks.

The cost of doing everthing yourself, is indeed burnout, and lower-quality work on the things that aren't strong suits... so it is best to develop working relationships with solid pros, who bring a lot to the table, so that more can get done, at higher quality.

It's every small business owners/entrepreneurs' dilemma, the delegation during growth, setting boundaries, figuring out who should do what, vs the owner doing everything... to speed up product time to market and improve quality ... makes a lot of sense... will do. Thanks Vic for your reasoned counsel; as always you have a lot of wisdom and experience in these areas... much appreciated.

Ken

p.s. I'll have to be on the lookout for those genies... still a Barbara Eden fan after all these years. I watch IDOJ dvds weekly. The idea of blinking things into market quickly is appealing. Developing a better video business model, is the first step.

Often, Ken, the hardest thing is to let go. It would seem as if you need to be able to do this.

From what I understand you have made many DVDs off of your own back - well done! Might be an idea to "close" this part of your experience and move into Producing your DVDs. After all, you definitely know WHAT you want now, I bet they'll be more than capable people to do the "hacking" for you.

Hey, you could still video and edit your own personal projects!

Our "Vic" has got rid of a lot of stuff so he can concentrate solely on the things that motivate him now. Take a leaf outta his book. If you really really don't need to DO the edit/white-balance/mix etc . .then don't!!

My previous business - totally run by me on my back - consisted of rents and machinery and heavy furnaces. I moved on. I now have a small space with my kit, and when I get the "calling" I'm there.
The process is slimmer and trimmer. I now get a real tingle and buzz when I video and then edit my work. But that has to do with the way I'm wired, my spatial and visual training I've had and the craft I was in prior to this one.

That small JPG of you showed me a guy that looks engaging, knowledgeable and handsome too! Do more of what you are so obviously good at and all too obviously enjoying too!

In respect of others beliefs, Life ain't a rehearsal - this IS the real deal.

Grazie

I think I know where you are Ken.
This is year 4, for my video biz.
I have yet to break even, but am not about to give up.
I've returned to my old occupation, freelance reporting, part time.
Have been doing it all.
Promoting, selling, quoting, networking, writing, shooting, re-shooting, VO, editing, pushing the dolly, pulling the dolly, dealing with clients who demand something for nothing.
Anyway over time I've made connections with people who do one or more of those things well. Editors, shooters, sound guys etc.
Now on some projects I'll still do some of those things.
On smaller projects I may do all of those things from time to time.
But I'm an old dog, and beginning next month things change.
I'm moving my business out of my home and into office space.
My focus will be getting out and getting business and hiring the people who do what the do do well.
I love to shoot, and I love to edit,----but I've come to the point where I know I am not the best shooter or the best editor. Pretty good, but not the real pro that I need to be.
I'm not even a computer guy or a technie like a lot of the people in this business. I've worked for 35 years as a news guy, writer, reporter, announcer.
There is some cross over, but often not when it comes to technical stuff. That is a never ending learning curve that gets steeper by the day it seems.
Next month I move from Jack of all trades to Dan the producer.
As I understand it there are only three types of people in any business, Technicians, Managers and Visionaries or Entrepreneurs.
I'm mostly the latter and have to accept that.
It's still more fun in the sandbox, but I have to get out, I just have to.
Oh to be a Victor Milt, but alas, I am 58 years old and that's not likely to happen any time soon.

Find the icon that says "Broad Help", click and she will pop out and take care of everything. My apologies to all female editors.

JJK

Dan (Sherman) -

hey dog... you CAN'T be me... for another seven years! :>))
You're too damn young!

I agree with everything that you stated above, except in one place.

I no longer feel it's necessary or even advisable to finance an office, unless...
1 - you're incapable of "settling down" in your home to get work done.
2- you've got kids or a demanding spouse who won't let you concentrate
3 - the nature of your particular type of production requires a lot of interaction with the public, where your living room just doesn't cut it

Once upon a time, I was priviledged to work in the "finest" of NYC studios and offices. No way, as I moved (we're talking years here) from association to association, with producers and production companies, would I consider anything less than a fancy penthouse or beautiful studio in the heart of Manhattan. Well those days are gone... and I believe (and live) - they just aren't necessary, anymore.

No one really expects that kind of front, and it's hard to even get clients to "come over" for a chat and a smoke. The internet has changed everything. I've been working for Sears for five years and have only "face to faced" with my client about five times. All the rest is by phone, GoToMyPC and GoToMyMeeting. Recently I added Skype for actual "face-to-face" meetings, but I'm not really sure it's necessary or even worthwhile. Rubbing your nose on a computer screen is MUCH more offensive than in "real life" for some reason. And once the meeting gets going, it's hard not to revert to basic human behavior.

Nevertheless, I suggest conserving your financial assets and think in terms of simple rentals of what you need, when you need it. I did and still do about 90% of my business over fancy lunches. If you're casting, rent a small "convention type" room at a local Marriott or Hilton. Sure it's $100 bucks for a day, but you ain't gonna BE there for a month - so you're saving money. Same thing for studio work. And find an editor with his own gear.

Show BUSINESS! The first rule of staying alive in business is to NOT squander your financial resourses. And as you clearly have already learned... you ARE in business - the most wonderful and alluring business that there is -- but a business, nevertheless. So think like a businessman.

best,
v

Two offices, client consultation room and faux reception area.
No budget for the blow up receptionist and first wife won't play the part, even for pay.
One of the reasons for this move is the chance to interact with carbon life forms other than my dog, Rastus.
Need to get out.
Need to GO to work for a while at least.
Paul, the guy who's splitting the cost of the office is a creative/business type, MBA/Artist.
There's a cost involved, but I'm hoping to get some brainstorming going between the two of us.
Though the businesses are separate hoping for some cross over of ideas if not work.
This area I live in, home of the Blackberry, is a high tech environment, fancy offices, two universities etc.
Perception's important.
And yes, I have a sinking feeling I'm choking cash flow.
But too late now.
I'll give it a year, and get back to you.
I will always have this business, at home or away, as I am badly smitten and think I can be successful.
Besides I have my buyout and inheritance wrapped up in this.
The fear of poverty is my motivation. LOL!
Could have taken the safe road,---but that's no fun!
Thanks for all that precious info.
I know others who frequent this forum will benefit too, Vic.

Good luck Sherman!

if ever I can be of any help to you, don't hesitate in writing me.
(or any of the rest of you, for that matter) -

v