I have to get this off my chest...

outrbanx wrote on 3/7/2007, 7:53 AM

I began doing computer-based video editing just for fun about 4 years ago. The first product I chose to go with was Pinnacle Studio 8, mainly because I had heard of it and because it was on clearance. I soon was told that this type of work was so CPU intensive, that I had to learn to expect inexplicable crashes and errors.

My purchase of Studio 8 was soon followed by an upgrade to Studio 9 because of the endless promises of less stability problems. While my projects were short, simple and required only a single menu, these crashes continued throughout the endless saga of patches released by Pinnacle to finally end up with version 9.4.3. For what it's worth, I managed to squeeze out a few projects with this version with varying degress of quality and success.

Gullible and apparently with money to throw away, I jumped onto the Pinnacle Studio 10 bandwagon. At first, all was well. My simple projects seem to go hand in hand with this new version - for a week or so. Then began the barrage of "patches and fixes". Installing, reinstalling, being told that my computer needed to be DEDICATED to Studio, jumping through hoops, etc. After weeks of waiting around...fiinally! I could edit with out a crash! A menu? No problem! So, reinvigorated and with much excitement, I toiled over my project for a customer and burned it to DVD. Hmmmmm...no sound. Must be something I did wrong! A quick check of the forum found that while Pinnacle could not "reproduce" this problem, I was with a group of longtime users that was also experiencing this "glitch". No rhyme...no reason....just because. Sometimes it would work...sometimes not.

This was enough. I was livid. By this time, I had started a business that required an editing application I could depend on! I looked around, tried the alternatives, even went back to Studio for a little while...with the same results.

Enter Sony VMS - found on sale at a local store. It took a few questions posted and quickly answered on this forum to get me up and running, but I was soon on my way to editing a mutli-camera , multi tape ceremony without a single hitch - no reinstallation. This must be a fluke! Surely, it CAN'T BE THIS EASY, right?

With my new-found toy, I was brave enough to take on my biggest project to date- 435 video clips from multiple sources that had to be edited into an entertaining format, complete with photo montages, effects and music videos. It took a while for me to learn all I needed, but VMS did it! Once again, no crashes, no slow downs, no sound problems, no reinstalls. Everything worked the first time without fail!!!

This product amazes me! You do not realize how much creativity you can out into a project when you are not constantly trying to keep the application running or worrying that it will crash and cause a complete loss of your hard work.

For anyone browsing these forums wondering if Vegas is a video editing application that you can trust - LOOK NO FURTHER!!

Thanks you, Sony! VMS and Vegas have opened a world of new possibilities for me.

Comments

Tech Diver wrote on 3/7/2007, 9:21 AM

You are not alone in describing your scenario. There are quite a few people here who have switched from a Pinnacle product to VMS (or full Vegas as in my case). I switched a couple of years ago when video production became part of my consulting business and Pinnacle would not let me complete my projects on time, or as I envisioned them, because of its inability to run more than 5 minutes without crashing and its limited capabilities. All I can say is that the Pinnacle years were an utter nightmare and the Vegas ones have been great.

I am currently the head of Engineering in a company that develops products for homeland security. I wonder how long I would keep my job if I released a product with the same lack of quality that Pinnacle has!

What amazes me is why people continue to buy upgrades from a company that continually promises fixes in the next release, but NEVER delivers on their word. The Pinnacle folks are nothing less than liars.

Note that even after you uninstall Pinnacle, there are literally well over 100 entries left behind in your registry (even after your run their Regclean tool), as well as many driver files and codecs. A free-ware tool like GSPOT will help you find the invalid codecs. I also found a year later that one of their services was still being started at boot-time, even though their product was removed from my machine! Simply incredible.

MSmart wrote on 3/7/2007, 2:35 PM

outrbanx, welcome to the fourm. One thing you'll notice it that this forum is nowhere as busy as Pinnacles, but that's because everyone is busy producing rather than trying to solve problems. Never the less, there are good threads here with useful information.

Good to see you over here.

Towbar wrote on 3/7/2007, 8:04 PM

"Quote"
One thing you'll notice it that this forum is nowhere as busy as Pinnacles, but that's because everyone is busy producing rather than trying to solve problems.

Ya know, that seems to make sense. : )

I have been trying to make the move to VMS, but its been hard. I don't mean VMS has been hard, but switching over from Studio. I've been with it for years, and can edit blindfolded. I am sucessful with Studio because I have been somewhat active on the forum, coming and going. I know most of the workarounds and tricks to keep the software going.

I do vow to learn VMS, and heres how I am going to do it. I run 2 computers, and one is coming due for a complete tune-up. I plan to NOT load Pinnacle on it, and just have VMS for editing. That way I will have to learn VMS .

Pinnacle is an addiction for me, I just can't stop.
SOMEBODY PLEASE STOP ME!

GerryLeacock wrote on 3/8/2007, 3:31 AM

I think there's meetings you can attend. Everyone sits around in a circle, and one by one you stand up and say, "My name is so-and-so and I am a Pinncale user". They serve lots of coffee. :)

>Pinnacle is an addiction for me, I just can't stop.
>SOMEBODY PLEASE STOP ME!

outrbanx wrote on 3/8/2007, 7:02 PM

Welcome Towbar!! Nice to see another familiar name here.

Come away from the light, MAN! Cold turkey is the best way. :)

The grass really is greener in Vegas Land. It's not an empty promise. You won't regret it.

4eyes wrote on 3/8/2007, 8:23 PM

>>>outrbanx, welcome to the fourm. One thing you'll notice it that this forum is nowhere as busy as Pinnacles, but that's because everyone is busy producing rather
>>>than trying to solve problems. Never the less, there are good threads here with useful information.

VMS7 is nice, along with it's stabiltiy what I especially like is the real-time effects playback controls you can use.
Nice program.

MSmart wrote on 3/8/2007, 9:58 PM

Pinnacle is an addiction for me, I just can't stop. It's kind of like watching a car race, you don't really watch it to see who wins, you watch it for the crashes.

As for this forum not being as busy... I started reading the Vegas forum. While we may not be able to use the features full Vegas has, very interesting posts there.

One of which is THIS one. Enjoy

outrbanx wrote on 3/9/2007, 5:47 AM

Ha! Just completing a usable project in Studio made me feel like I had won the Daytone 500 - just the giddy feeling, not the huge paycheck.

Besides, just like with a real racing career - it didn't happen often. In comparison, Ford Pintos don't hold up well in races.

Towbar wrote on 3/9/2007, 7:58 PM

Cold Turkey, huh? And I am close to 300 posts at the Pinnacle forum.!

RE: I have to get this off my chest.
Staying within the nature of this post, I will vent. If you don't like babble, click another post now!

I started off with Studio 8 (Quickstart), and a Dazzle DVC80 analog converter. This gave me a taste of video editing, but
IT IS NOT A STABLE PROGRAM

So, I decided to upgrade to Studio 9, thinking that the upgraded program was going to fix my problems. Well, a while went by and the patching progress was looking good, so I decided to upgrade to Studio 9 Plus, with a 700PCI card. I was fairly lucky with finally getting the program to work properly, but there were still a few problems. 9.43 was a disaster for me, then product support was ended, so I was saddened because I was at a dead end. I still could use 9.35 with fairly good results, but always with caution and concern of losing an editing session. A crash every once in a while made me understand that,
IT IS AN UNSTABLE PROGRAM

With so much time and money invested, I decided to upgrade to Studio 10. I found the earlier versions unusable, but I still was able to continue my editing in 9.35. As I progressed through the patches, I saw a lot of progress. I was of the opinion that a new computer would solve my remaining concerns, for there were other people on the forums that posted total satisfaction and stableness. I had my computer tech spec out a hot computer, at all costs. This new computer also demanded another copy of Studio 10 (plus) with a 700pci board. Well it edited at blazing speed, but still showed the same deficiencies,
IT IS AN UNSTABLE PROGRAM

10.7 actually was workable for me, for after 3 years of hammering, I knew its limitations, workarounds and what to expect. All I needed for Pinnacle to fix was the menus, and change the disc burning engine to one that would produce a valid disc. What really burned me was that the discs produced were not backwards compatable with older players. My viewing audience requires me to produce a disc that will play for them. Period!

Now with Vista coming out, that is where Pinnacle is putting its efforts, ignoring the facts that there are many bugs still to be worked out. All indicators point towards an obvious abandonment of XP users of Studio. I understand marketing well: Studio needs to be able to operate with Vista. This means new money, for they have already gotten their money from the XP users. NEW OS = NEW $. But, the fact remains the same.
IT IS AN UNSTABLE PROGRAM

I roughly figured that over the years I have invested well over $2,000.00 in software, hardware, upgrades, computer, burners, players, video cards, memory, and extra effects just to try and solve the mystery of making Studio work properly. Remember my previous statement about being addicted to Studio? Well this is the reason. Once you throw way too much money into a venture such as this, it really hurts when you finaly admit defeat. This is the point to cut your losses and move on.

I have both VMS and Studio installed on my secondary computer. I plan on scraping this machine this weekend, and only install VMS.

Just call me Arnold, " I'll Be BacK"

autopilot wrote on 3/9/2007, 10:32 PM

"All I needed for Pinnacle to fix was the menus, and change the disc burning engine to one that would produce a valid disc."

Yeah, kind of a bummer when you spend 10-12 hours on a project only to see that it won't burn to disc. My friends & I gave Pinnacle a few hundred $$$, but no more. We've been with Sony for almost two years and several dozen finished projects. I can't believe I stayed as long as I did with Pinnacle's two-video-track setup.

stevec5375 wrote on 3/10/2007, 6:34 AM

I had Pinnacle Studio version 7,8, and 9. The only one that was even stable enough for me to produce a video was v7. After the usual runaround from Pinnacle and after reading hundreds of hateful posts in their forums, I called it quits. I moved to Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum and have been happy ever since.

The ONLY feature I miss from Studio is their SmartSound.

Pinnace should be sued for such a flawed product being dumped on an unsuspecting public.

Denver Dave wrote on 3/14/2007, 8:29 PM

I have a copy of Pinnacle Quickstart 9 that came with my Dazzle capture cables. So when considering a movie editor, I naturally thought of Pinnacle. Downloaded the huge trial, but must be a different target audience. I'm more into editing movie files.

I looked at Camtasia which I instantly liked and it produces the Flash FLV files that are my destination output. Camtasia looks like a great product, but a little pricey for me and it could not read either my DVDs I receive from clients or my video camera's ASF files. WMS reads both of these. Disappointing that WMS does not read FLV, but only SWF and does not produce SWF or FLV, but I think I made a good choice and the interface is quite similar to Camtasia.

If others are producing FLV files (with other applications), maybe we can share some ideas.

Hope to learn a lot in the forums.

outrbanx wrote on 3/15/2007, 7:23 AM

Dave -

There are a number of utilities that will convert video files to FLV.

I use Sorenson Squeeze. Riva VX is free, but I haven't tried it.

http://www.rivavx.com/index.php?encoder&L=3

Denver Dave wrote on 3/16/2007, 11:07 PM

Thanks - I suppose that I should try Sorrenson. Super(C) is close to what I need, but need lower frame rates when I do video instead of just audio. I have an old copy of Flix Pro 4 which I'm trying (so far unsuccessfully) to get installed on my new PC.

Did a demo of Flash Video Studio 1.7 and it was not bad either, but unfortunately can not produce audio only FLV files.

Kevin Mc wrote on 3/18/2007, 12:35 PM

Recently I was working with Ulead Video Studio 10 and DVD MovieFactory 6+. The installation of DVDMF caused the crash of both pieces of software. Upon contacting Ulead that have you run through this ridiculous uninstall process - whereby manually removing all folders, registry entries and manually dumping all temp folders. After reinstalling everything crashed - every time they were run. I couldn't even open the DVD program any more and the VideoStudio was dead in the water. A tech at Ulead assured me that the problem was my fault - something must be wrong with my computer (not). Shortly thereafter "numerous" post began appearing on their forums describing my exact same problems. I was not alone. And they became aware that their programs were crashing into each other.

Someone recommended the Sony Movie Studio software to me (in a thread on the Ulead forums - gotta love that). I looked. I bought. I'm happy. After several weeks of almost daily usage, not a single crash - and it does everything the Ulead programs do (perhaps more).

This is good software!

Denver Dave wrote on 3/20/2007, 4:43 PM

Sounds like I did not miss out by not testing Ulead. I actually tried, but I could not download the demo, something about I had already registered, but they never sent me my new password.

I tried Pinnacle since I have an older version, but they must have a different target market or something - did not seem to be the best for me.

So I bought Sony Movie Studio 8.5 which I assume as some relation to Vegas Movie Studio and at this point I would make the decision the same way. My challenge now is to learn how to get the best from it.

MSmart wrote on 3/20/2007, 10:33 PM

I bought Sony Movie Studio 8.5 which I assume as some relation to Vegas Movie Studio

Huh? I posted in your other thread that I've never heard of it.

Denver Dave wrote on 3/20/2007, 11:09 PM

My mistake, box does say Sony Vegas Movie Studio - I didn't read the small Vegas type.

BigEgg wrote on 3/21/2007, 12:51 AM

I discovered Vegas a couple of years ago because of instability of Pinnacle Studio and I was happy until I upgraded to DVDAS 3.0.
If Sony will not seriously help me (see my other post "DVDAS 3.0 - playback error") I'll have to move to another software, probably Adobe Premiere Elements :-(

WillGill wrote on 4/9/2007, 1:25 PM

Yep, I'm an EX Pinnacle Studio 7, 8, 10 user too. There are a lot of us "suckers" that have finally wised up and seen the error of our ways. As has been mentioned, I don't visit these forums too often. VMS just works.

God bless those that visit the forums to answer questions.

bilco82 wrote on 4/12/2007, 2:42 PM

outrbankx, I went through the same problem with Pinnacle. I bought studio 9, put all of my home videos on DVD but then it all went downhill. I purchased a Sony DVD camcorder, imported some mini-discs into the software but the audio/video was out of sync all of the time. After hours on the phone with Pinnacle Tech Support and trying studio 10, I sent studio 10 back got a refund, purchased VMS and I have had no problems. I should have done this much sooner.

ForumAdmin wrote on 4/13/2007, 10:55 AM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this thread.

It is always great for for us engineering types to read that the product we make actually works well in the field, in real world use. We spend a LOT of time on stability in the VMS product family...so thanks for noticing.

DH
VP Technology
SCS

AlanT wrote on 4/18/2007, 4:44 AM

Hi Guys, glad to hear you are happy with the software. I read this forum and based upon these comments I decided to buy the software.

Problem is I'm struggling to get it reliable. It keeps hanging up and freezing my system.

I upgraded my memory to 1Gb, added a second (250Gb) disk drive and set up my page file on the new drive at 4Gb, and still it is not working.

My project is about 55 mins in length consisting of about 260 scenes and I get to about 35 mins into the project and I start getting problems.

Anyone got any ideas?

If this is good, I'd hate to see bad software... :-(

Paul Mead wrote on 4/18/2007, 6:56 AM

You should post your problem in a separate thread instead of hijacking this thread. When you do, be sure to specify lots of info, like the versions of windows, VMS, any effects you may be using, etc. What is at the 35 minute point in your project?

Chances are there is something in your environment that is causing trouble with VMS -- too many people are successful with this product for this to be caused by a simple bug in VMS.