On the other end of the spectrum, I've heard from a couple of people who've seen the new Samsung LCD (with a 120hz refresh rate) that it almost looks TOO clear.

I was about to mention the new Samsung range.
15000:1 contrast with pure black filter... i believe theyve got a coating on the panel to bring blacks down (ie a tinted protectin panel), however, this is then equalised by a brighter gamut within the actual pixels themselves.
So the screen is actually brighter than normal, but filtered to bring in a truer black.

I was surprised when i saw these in action, Ive never been much of a samsung person to be honest.. and to say it blew EVERYTHING away would be an understatement. Not only was I impressed, but i was also dissapointed that such a good image could come from a company like samsung.
These were LCd's not plasma

He-he.

"So I bought a 720P HD screen.

Then the neighbor got one too, so I took my last savings and got a 1080P screen.

That should be the Non Plus Ultra for years to come!

But, alas, then my neighbor bought a 1080P 120 Hz screen.

What can I do next?"

:O)

LED backlighting has two advantages:

1. Makes it possible to get a wider color gamut.

2. Uses about half as much power as traditional fluorescent backlighting, so you get longer battery life in notebooks.

theres also the issue of heat and power consumption.. leds dont heat up like LCDs and plasmas and go through about half teh voltage requirements.
Theres also the issue of halflife brightness.. LEDs should theoretically last longer in that regard as well.

The heat generated by fluorescent tubes is the wasted power consumption.

Voltage requirements? They won't change the number of cells in a battery pack.

LEDs also reach max. brightness instantly, whereas fluorescents take several minutes (even 20 minutes to really max out).

"sorry, you're not watching my video right and I refuse to adjust it to give you schlubs a better picture on those newfangled LCD thingies."

That is NOT at all my attitude towards video production. In the "old" days it was quite easy to get two CRT monitors to match, I have yet to see two LCD panels that can be matched as closely. With the exception of the BVM series of monitors, there is no such thing as a "reference" LCD monitor. They ALL look different, even monitors of the same brand and model. At least with a CRT, either HD or SD, I can go from one facility to the next and know that I have a fairly stable and representative reference. I'd gladly start using an LCD reference monitor, but which one? The main selling point of the Sony BVM LCD monitors is that they finally look the same as the CRTs that they are designed to replace (and they are twice the price, not so much a selling point...)

"Pop record producers mix the sound on studio monitors, then go play it in a car to see how it sounds like in real life for 99% of their customers. If it doesn't sound good there, they have to tweak the mix until it does."

I happen to have produced a number of pop albums back when I was exclusively an audio engineer/producer. I know the drill, mix on the big JBLs and check it in the car. But you never mix in the car and check it on the JBLs. I don't edit on the LCD and check it on the CRT, I do exactly the opposite. Besides, an LCD would never tell you if you have an interlace issue and until everything is shot, edited and viewed progressive, then you'll want to know if there is a problem.

Look, I fully embrace all new technology and I have a constantly drained bank account to prove it. LCD panels are simply not yet as revealing as an expensive, professional-grade, well-calibrated CRT. Not yet.

The significant difference with LED illuminated LCDs is the brightness of the LEDs can be controlled. I believe the luma is in some way use to control the LEDs behind the LCD to dramatically extend the dynamic range. One downside is these kinds of panels are quite a bit deeper. You also get a kind of 3D effect as part of the image is coming from a different plane.

So basically what you have is an LCD being lit by a low res B&W display. We've had a similar monitor for years except it used a B&W CRT to light the LCD panel.

Bob.

serena,

how true, we're all hookers after - we get paid for turning (doing?) tricks. as an editor of many years experience, i have been, on various occassions, totally enamored, revolted, disgusted, elated with the material i've had to edit.

whether we're paid as 'artists' or number crunchers, if you're a pro, then you give it your best shot. my programs have to look as good as they can on ANYTHING. ok, i draw the line at ipod's...

leslie

"forget the quality feel the width!:............... Grazie - I love it.

But its not really that bad. This is still new technology and what your average shopper is buying for Christmas is generally still only 720p and poor quality. Top of the line 1080p LCDs can be fairly good and getting better blacks will come.

The 3-year-old LCD monitor that I am looking at seems better than the best (price compromised but ) compared LCD monitor I found in the the store about a year back. Seems to me it is getting harder to find good stuff as time passes. Seems it is all focused toward Walmart these days.

I think engineering and test is sloppier than it used to be. Few companies are willing to do the best that can be done.

I've mentioned this before but I think the state of local digital TV broadcast is a prime example. When I first watched DTV over 5 years ago the best stations were pretty good. Now they have all spent big money to upgrade equipment but all seem to have merged into so-so. I think the best equipment they are buying is full of bugs. I am shocked that after this time things are still so sloppy. I constantly see things that drive me nuts -- the most common is bad out of sync on audio vs video.

Sorry I took this off on a tangent, but I really feel that engineering is being pushed into the background and marketing is driving everything. I'm actually surprised that things keep evolving and work as well as they do.

Serena..

LOL...You make a very good point.
To one extent or another, we're all who...ummm....mercenaries, indeed.

Bill, the increase in commercial marketing stratgies we need to deal with is because the pro world and the consumer world are merging. When these worlds were truly seperate the pro world was driven by good enginneering and the consumer world was driven by marketing, but now filmmakers of modest means like most of us here live in the twilight zone.

Mike

The twilight zone.. :)

Does that mean that the LCD makers now control our horizontal and vertical as well as our contrast ???


:)

Not only was I impressed, but i was also disappointed that such a good image could come from a company like Samsung.

Why were you disappointed? I'm actually impressed that the Korean companies have come so far quality-wise. Whether it's Samsung, LG (formerly Goldstar) or Hyundai, they've not only equalled their Japanese counterparts, but in some cases, they've exceeded them.

Kennymusician...

You're confusing your metaphors, V/H control was The Outer Limits.
What it means, however, is that we're tapped between the 60's and the 08's without a paddle.

Ah yes - Outer limits. My bad.

Twilight was ...
You're travelling to another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound... but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land, whose boundaries are only that of the imagination... you're entering... the Twilight Zone ...

I won't try and force twilight into another dimension other than 4:3 or 16:9.

Back to seriousness - One of the benefits of LCD's is I get a lot fewer headaches. Even with higher refresh rates on CRT's they made my eyes ache and head hurt. I find LCD's much easier on the eye. And they don't make that high-pitched whine that CRT's make (the ones that not everyone can hear - those who hear it know what I mean).

John,

I agree it's early days with LCDs, and with few people calibrating their LCDs it's even worse than it could be.

Still, if you are a bit picky about what you buy, you can get good LCDs for a fraction of the cost of a BVM monitor, which by the way cost about the same whether CRT or LCD (perhaps you were comparing used BVM CRTs with new BVM LCDs?).

And several pro LCDs far below BVMs can do interlaced scan, for example the very popular Panasonic LH-1700 and its brethren.

Now, interlace issues are getting to the point of being 100% irrelevant, because there haven't been any interlaced HDTVs sold in a while and there will be 0% going forward. There are a few CRT SDTVs in the back of the store gathering dust, but is that your market?

IMHO it's much more important to make sure that your video looks good on progressive screens, because that is what approaching 100% of the audience use.

Take those interlaced cameras and CRTs out in the back and shoot them!

For a while it seemed like progressive wouldn't happen until the last TV engineer was laid to rest, hopefully voluntarily.

As it turned out, the world just couldn't wait for them to be laid to rest voluntarily, so an alternative solution was provided. :O)

Had to resurrect this one. From 18 months ago?

See that hat in my mouth - well I'm eating it. Chomp chomp chomp . . .

We have a SONY BRAVIA and I've been watching "Yellowstone" on it . . . I'm blown a w a y , , , ,

There is NO way a CRT at 42" could look this good? Even if I could afford one.

Times have changed, and for the better . . . I colour correct/grade using my JVC Pro Monitor and see WHAT I want on the SONY Bravia. I'm happy AND I see where this technology is going too.

Grazie

I colour correct/grade using my JVC Pro Monitor and see WHAT I want on the SONY Bravia. I'm happy...

Grazie ol' boy, could you expound on this just a tad more, please? I've been looking at the Bravia, too.

So you do your colour grading on the JVC (CRT) and the image works on the Sony (LCD)?

Thanks!

When my Sony Bravia 46" tracked the AVIA test disc to almost perfect in 2006 I was convinced. The only long term issue is the slow reduction of the backlight intensity which I had to pump up recently from 2 to 5.
The newer Bravias have gamma and red/green/blue adjustments also. There is also no slow misconvergence (after 3 years) and the linearity is perfect.
JJK

i'm with grazie on the sony bravia. pretty good picture, even out of the box.

as i wrote in another thread, i'm debating when to give up my crt monitor altogether. everything i do seems to end up on a lcd / plasma, so i'm changing colour space to computer, getting a better range, but feeling uncomfortable that it's no longer cricket.....

leslie

If anyone knows of a way to check for field order errors without a CRT I'll get rid of my CRTs pretty soon.

Bob.