I really tried: Photoshop Picture Frames/Stills distorted on TV...

kentwolf wrote on 1/9/2004, 9:36 PM
OK. I have tried all I can think of and still can't get this.

When I take a still image, any kind, then use a picture frame around it, then use this in Vegas, parts of the frame will look a little distorted ON THE ACTUAL TV SCREEN. It looks just fine in the Vegas preview window and on the computer playing the AVI file. I can't think of a better way to describe it. The actual root picture is just fine, the FRAME isn't. It's sort of like invisible horizontal lines intersecting on the edges thus distorting the frame edges, primarily toward the top of the image. I have seen this effect on 3 different TV's, some better quality than others. All show this issue though, whether via external monitor preview or actual DVD disk.

I have tried PNG, Targa, JPG, and other image formats, but I still get this same distortion effect. It's not really badly distorted, but it is not a sharp, crisp frame.

I have tried frames from both Photoshop CS and Paint Shop Pro 8. Same issue.

I have tried video backgrounds and solid color background to no avail.

I also make sure to de-interlace the image before going to the video.

Funny thing, about a year ago, I did the same thing and all looked just fine. I have no idea what I did differently.

I would really appreciate anyone's insight on this one. I haven't a clue...

Thank you very much for your help!

Comments

farss wrote on 1/9/2004, 9:53 PM
Try checking the box on the source media that says "reduce interlace flicker" before rendering.
randy-stewart wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:10 PM
Also, try going into the custom area of the render template you are using and on the video tab, change the field order to none - progressive scan (default is lower). Also change the quality to best. This gets rid of "combing" artifacts around the edges of pictures. Hope this helps.
Randy
kentwolf wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:15 PM
>>Try checking the box on the source media that says "reduce interlace flicker" before rendering.

I did try that already.

Thank you, though.
kentwolf wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:22 PM
>>... progressive scan (default is lower).

I did have this set as you state on the individual image media, but I will also try the Best rendering and see what happens.

Thank you!
kentwolf wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:29 PM
Well, I tried the Best rendering, reducing interlace flicker, and progressive scan. Unfortunately, the frame distortion is still there.

I also tried applying a broadcast colors filter, in case that's an issue. No difference at all.

Thank you very much for your help, thus far.

If anyone else has any ideas, I would love to hear them.

Thanks!
kentwolf wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:44 PM
For what it's worth, using all of the suggestions thus far, but without a frame around the picture, it, the picture, is not even quite square (Pan/Cropped); specifically, in the uper-right-hand corner. It seems to bend it slightly.

This is all as per external monitor preview.

A video clip on the same timeline, also panned/cropped, is perfectly square.

Is this a Vegas issue?

Thanks for all the help!
RichR wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:50 PM
if your levels are too high, you will get distortion on a tv. try lowering the brightness of the frame.
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/9/2004, 10:59 PM
Frame distortion, as in frame SIZE/STRETCH? Did you interlace the image in Photoshop? That would cause exactly what you are talking about.
Also, you might try adding a tiny smidge of blur, and if the photo is moving at all, try supersampling at a rate of 2 to start with. Just render a small section.What is the original size of the image? Resolution? Acquired from what?
farss wrote on 1/9/2004, 11:03 PM
I suspect this is a TV issue!
A lot of TVs have poorly regulate power supplies. This causes the line width to vary depending on the brightness of the line.

The other problem maybe due to levels, I know you've trid BC FX, but check with histograms, luminance shouldn't go below 16 or above 235 I think. Best test is just a frame of one of those checkerboard generated media, get the levels up / down a bit and see how that looks on the monitor. Also even if all that is OK you may have too big an energy transition in the top of the image even though it's all legal. Try having less of a jump between things in the frame or between the frame and what it joisn up with. Anything in the way of generated graphics can be a real pain to get looking just right.

And no it's not a Vegas issue directly. Vegas can produce the full gammut of everything, one could argue this is not a good thing for a video app but these days video isn't limited to TV.
kentwolf wrote on 1/9/2004, 11:18 PM
>>if your levels are too high, you will get distortion on a tv. try lowering the brightness
>>of the frame.

I did try this. No change.

>>Frame distortion, as in frame SIZE/STRETCH?

No. Just not crisp, non-straight/crooked edges on some portions of the picture frame, primarily toward the upper-right-hand corner. This is actually the edge of the photo. The edge just happens to be a frame.

>>Did you interlace the image in Photoshop?

No. I DE-interlaced it. Used Photoshop defaults for this.

>>...if the photo is moving at all...

Just static.

>>What is the original size of the image?

640 x 480, cropped slightly to 625 x 480. The issue has occurred with other non-cropped pictures.

>>Resolution?

72 ppi.

>>Acquired from what?

It is a captured video frame (MiniDV). While this is not my ideal choice, it has what I want.

This issue also exists with a digital camera, non-cropped image (2160 x 1440, 230 dpi). The picture edges do not look straight, near the upper-right-hand corner, primarily.

>>I suspect this is a TV issue!

I wondered about the same thing, but it's only when I want to use a picture frame on a photo and I have seen it on 3 different TV's. At least one of them is pretty good.

Thank you for your help!
farss wrote on 1/9/2004, 11:37 PM
If one looks good and two look bad I think says it all.

You could try moving the frame down a few lines i.e. make it a little shorter, might make the effect a little less noticable..
You can make the same thing happen with a white square box inside a white rectangle. Put that up on most TVs and watch your rectangle bend in where the box is.
kentwolf wrote on 1/10/2004, 4:02 AM
I did notice that resizing the image/frame helps a little.

>>Put that up on most TVs and watch your rectangle bend in where the box is.

Is this simply a phenomenon where that's pretty much "just the way it is?" I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

Thanks!
farss wrote on 1/10/2004, 4:10 AM
What happens is the power to deflect the beam in the TV and to drive the electrons are derived from the same source. So when you put something really bright in a large part of the screen the amount of power to deflect the beam drops i.e. the width of the frame shrinks at that point. Thats one of the reasons the manufacturers always overscan the picture horizontaly. We've got a 16:9 TV but with a 4:3 image this effect is very noticeable because the edges aren't masked.
Computer monitors, LCD and plasma TVs don't have this problem. There's not a whole lot you can do about it apart from avoiding large jumps in average brightness down the frame.
kentwolf wrote on 1/10/2004, 4:14 AM
Oh.

That's nice to know... :)

>>Thats one of the reasons the manufacturers always overscan the picture horizontaly.

It is definitely a horizontal issue.

The image looks bad on all 3 of my TV's. I wish I could make it look good on at least 1, but I cannot.

That's pretty frustrating trying to nail down a TV/hardware issue, such as you have detailed.

Noteworthy: Even a not-bright digital camera image was distorted as I previously detailed. It did not *appear* that brightness was an issue. When the image is full screen, there is no discernable distortion whatsoever; just when the picture's edges are visible.

Thanks for your help!