Hendo - phew you were fast! - Just thought I'd make meself a cuppa too!

Thanks for the feeback - and yes will bear what you said in mind. Are you saying that to get a DV in enabled camcorder is more expensive, and that just buying a £50 widget is a cheaper route?

Grazie

You've touched on an issue that I have been considering lately. I have an overwhelming urge to buy a new digital toy. I haven't been able to satisfy this urge yet because of a two-fold problem:

First off, my old analog Sony TVR-52 refuses to die. Secondly, I'm married. Put these two factors together, and it means that one has to come up with one helluva good excuse to replace a working camcorder. (Haven't been able to manage it just yet.........)

I am really interested in opinions on the new stuff that's out on the market. I'm particularly curious about the 3 CCD "Prosumer Grade" camcorders that several of the major comapnies produce. Can anyone give me any feedback about this class of camera??

kcarroll

Here's something posted a while back that might help...




Subject: RE: Audio rubberbanding
Posted by: stewartr002 (Ignore This User)
Date: 4/18/2002 2:33:17 PM

Hendo,
Here's an approach...produce a short video using pictures from when you started dating up to the first anniversary or so, put some romantic music behind it (Céline Dion's Falling Into You track is nice), and use a lot of crossfade transitions. On the last slide of the show, type something like "and the story continues". Then after she stops the tears and starts saying wow, we should do that with our other pictures and videos, work in that you could do more if you had a little more drive space and memory -- AND A GOOD CAMERA*. When she asks how much that will cost, say something like "less than what we spend eating at fast food places in a month." At the very least, you could get lucky. Worked for me. Good luck. :-)
Randy





*edited slightly to fix typos and make it more applicable to purchasing a new camera.



Worked for me, too!

Wow........, I had no Idea this was such a common problem!

And such a creative and artsy setup for the "new camera pitch"! (It even came with audio clip suggestions!) Maybe that's been my problem all along: No enough "art" in my soul. (BTW: I liked the way you slid in the part about more memory and HD space.)

What the hell; I'll give it a try! The worst that can happen is that she'll see through me and add this to the list of reasons for calling me a nasty, old, manipulative fart. (Of course if she's not speaking to me, I can just go out and buy the camcorder, since at that point, things couldn't get any worse!)

Thank you all.

kcarroll

I've just gone through an extensive digicam search and had the same wish list as yourself (Grazie) although I also wanted one as small as possible so I can carry it with me everywhere.

I tried out models from Panasonic (DC-252) and Canon (Elura and Elura 2) but finally settled on the Sony PC9. Although I am in a PAL country (Oz), I do everything in NTSC so I bought it from eBay in the US.

If you don't need something quite as small the Sony PC100/110 also looked very good.

The next step up in quality would be a 3ccd model such as the Sony TRV900. These can all be had for under $1000 on eBay, I don't know what UK pricing would be.

Cheers
Steve

P_L

First, glad to hear of your success. Isn't it sweet to discover another benefit from your hobby?

Second, for Kcarroll, you are talking about some major bucks for a 3 CCD prosumer camera. That calls for hitting more than the emotional buttons. You'll have to show some economic utility too.

But before I go there...I have to recommend that you take a gander at the Sony TRV line of Digital 8 camcorders. Lots of utility and quality for the price. All the bells and whistles for less than $500 or $600. Hard to argue with that price tag. Of course, they don't compete with the 3 CCD cameras (wish I had one) in the picture quality department. However, they are certainly good enough for most home users.

Now back to the fun...here's an idea. After you lay (sorry) the emotional clip on her...and are talking about how neat it was (the clip I mean), you may want to mention that this would be a great idea to do as a little service for friends and family. Take some video of an event for folks and add a little slide show with music to the end for an emotional effect. Heck just about anyone would pay $50 or so and just think, only about 30 or 40 jobs and you will have that prosumer camera paid for. Of course, you'll have to "invest" in a camera first to measure up to the quality expected of your potential customers. You may need to upgrade your scanner too as most folks won't have their older photos digitized. Think it'll work? I wonder....only one way to find out...gotta run...will get back with you later...
Randy

Sfdoddsy,

Thanks for that helpful and relevant feedback.

Yes the 3ccd [Sony TRV900] is probably the direction I wish to go in. Panasonic brought out the NV-MX300B (can be got here for £1180.00 GBp), which has now spawned and is superseded by the NV-MX350B -with a manual focus ring. Anybody used either of these two? Should I be looking at Panasonic? My old analogue is a Panasonic.

Hmmm... I don't need too many bells & whistles, just brilliant colour production and some form of, more than average, sound facility - meaning some form of external split mic facility.

Now then Vfers [p_l, Kcarroll et al], any known stumblings between Cammy and VF? Any bad functionality fit with particualr DVs I need to be made aware of?

Thanks in advance,

Grazie

Hay, Grazie...

So far I've been happy with my Sony TRV-240 Digital 8 camera...($599 U.S.)

My next step up will be a 3 chip camera. (Uffda...)

Let me know if you want more details about the camera.

Oooh yes please!

How well does it peform with VF?

Have you had any cliches that you've needed to rectify?

Any reason why you went with Sony? Brand loyalty? Previous knowledge of Sony products? Have you needed to get to their Support team? If so what was it like? Do you use the Sony to print back to? Do you then print out to another device ie VHS or whatever?

(What's Uffda?)

Thanks in advance,

Grazie

I use a Canon Elura, which I got two years ago, actually
1) for its small size. I use a belt case, so that means I tend to take it out with me more frequently because I don't have it dangling from my neck or swinging around in a shoulder bag. Slip it into its case and I'm hands-free.
2) for Progressive Scan Mode, which I shoot in all the time. Not only does it give me very clear footage, but the stills I extract are beautiful.
3) for Analog in/out in addition to DV in/out. My only disappointment so far is that, as far as I know, it doesn't have pass-through capability.

P_l,

Thanks for that as well.

Any reason why you went with Canon and not one of the other big 4?

I think I know what Progression Scan Mode is - please expand on this.

When you say it doesn't have pass thru - does this mean that when are needing to convert AV to DV you have to first record your AV to the DV tape and then onwards? Is that correct?

Thanks again,

Grazie

Stewartr002;

You're good!...........I hadn't thought of the "It will pay for itself" angle.

kcarroll

I will probably buy a Sony when I upgrade, just because of my experience with my existing Sony.

I've bee Storm Chasing with the local college's Meteorology Department since 1997, and my old Sony has survived season after season of being rained on, hailed on, dropped, and thrown. I don't mean to say that other camcorders are not durable, it's just that I feel comfortable with the way Sony builds a camera, and I wouldn't want to try something new and be disappointed. (It's the same sort of mental glitch that makes you always order the same "favorite" at a restaurant.)

kcarroll

Grazie,
I went with the Elura a couple of years ago, because it was the smallest DV cam with progressive scan mode, much smaller than the bulky Sonys at the time. The tiny JVC had just come out too, but I've had bad experiences with JVC, and it didn't have analog in. Progressive scan, the best I understand it, does not interlace your picture; it records every line of resolution on each frame, rather than interpolating half the lines, then the other half. That's why, I think, the stills are so good, and so that way I have a combination video and still camera, I figure. And the sharpness of the video is great, too.

Thanks for that p_l.

I'll bone-up on what prgressive scan means, but you have given me a clue.

Do you use this cammy to send VF projects to? Have had any problems and print-to-tape this way?

Grazie

Grazie:

I use a Canon Optura 100mc, one of the "prosumer" cameras, although it only has a 2CCD chipset. I bought it instead of the GL1 because it seemed to me that there are alot of GL1's out there being sold secondhand (not a good sign I presume) and because the Optura100mc is small so that I can wear it in a belt pack for hiking, skiing and the like. I have had difficulties with it when I Print-to-Tape from VF. You may have seen some of the forum topics on this. When I try to print to tape from VF with a final rendered *.avi video, I frequently end up with audio and video gaps even though the *.avi file plays fine in MediaPlayer. They only last a moment but it destroys the mood of the whole video. I'm not 100% sure that it is caused by the Canon, but latest evidence is certainly pointing in that direction. For the expense (about US$1400) it is not a minor issue.

What I like about the 100mc:
- small and compact
- does tape and stills
- has an SD Media card for stills
- uses optical lens in oil for stability, not digital
- takes miniDV tapes
- LCD and viewfinder

What I don't like:
- I paid for many features I don't use b/c I capture into VF (audio dubbing, etc)
- the above mentioned Print-to-Tape problem
- expensive accessories (what else is new)


Hope this helps,
joey515

Joey515

Thanks for the comprehensive explaination. What you've said is starting to assist me build a picture of the cammy I would elect to buy. - I mustn't forget that I would still have the AV Panasonic with me. It is an excellent beast - very ruggged, etc etc.

Thanks again

Grazie

Hi, Grazie

What is Uffda?? Ha... LOL :) I've tried to figure out some of your expressions, but I'll have to read the 'UK lingo for dummies' book. :) I'm from Minnesooota, but we really don't talk like the people in the 'Fargo' movie. Saying 'Uffda' is like saying 'ouch', or 'oohh'. It might be a Norwegion expression (got it from my Norwegion grandmother).

About the Sony (Digital-8) I bought...I do like Sonys' stuff, had good luck so far. My first camcorder is an analog Sony (and I'm still using it for 2 camera shots). One of the main reasons for buying this one, was to be able to capture my old analog 8mm tapes, and I have the ability to do the 'pass-through' thing for analog-to-digital conversion (if I ever need to capture a VHS tape, this would help).

It has worked great with VF, and Vegas, and have never had to call Sony.

I did print back to tape fine, then to a VHS tape, and it all looked good.

Let us know what you end up with.

Jon

Oh, I can get 60 min of video on my Sony Digita-8 tapes. How much can you get on a DV camcorder?

(Just a thought)