Idea's for a music tour documentary?

shogo wrote on 4/12/2004, 10:06 PM

I just got a gig to do 7 show tour for a for 7 different Rap groups. I am planning on doing some pre and after shooting and on stage performances for all of the groups. I will be also doing some artist interviews and some casual appearances of them just being themselves.

This will be my first paid job though it's not really allot for the amount of work I am anticipating but hay got to start somewhere right? Anyways I am really excited about this and was looking for input from anyone who has done anything similar or just have any creative idea's that you might have.

I.e. thing's to be prepared for and the like. It should probably end up being about 1 hour long since I was planning on doing one whole song per group synced to the pre-recorded music sort of like a video from the footage of each of the shows. And also the pre and after shows and artist interviews along with some voice over talent from one of them though we haven't decided who that will be yet.

Anyways, sorry to ramble just excited to have such a big project and that my first video which I did for free to get some recognition And it has paid off since the manager of the tour saw the video I maid and asked me to do this.

Anywho any suggestions?

Thanks in advance…

Comments

Sr_C wrote on 4/12/2004, 10:34 PM

First of all.. Congratulations! Sounds like a cool gig. Also sounds like you have the same video intersts as me. I also work with local bands making videos, recording live shows and what not. I haven't yet figured out how to get paid for it though so you're one up on me ;)

Anyways, my advice is this. You may want to reconsider syncing the CD audio to the live footage and instead just record the live audio direct off the boards during the shows and use that. Syncing live to recorded can be a real pain especially if they vary at all in their performances... And rappers usually do.

Good luck, -Shon

stormstereo wrote on 4/13/2004, 12:23 AM

I agree with Sr C.
Record the live audio through the mixer board. Sometimes the output audio level is too high or low for your gear so be friendly to the sound person and he/she will help you fix it. Preferably, bring the cables you need for this. In fact, talk to the sound person before the whole event to find out what needs to be done.

Also try to find out stuff about the locations. How can you move around, what about the lighting, how to set up the cams.

Maybe you should have a DAT or MiniDisc to record off the mixer while you are running around with the camera. Also, a microphone over the crowd to record the cheering to a separate track is often needed to get that WOW-feeling of a live gig. Stage microphones generally does not cath this very well. Having that sound on a separate track; you can in-/decrease it when editing to produce the desired feeling.

If you have several cameras, use one on a tripod to catch the whole stage while you are running around with the other(s). Make sure you have someone to guard the gear while your not there.

Maybe a little toolset to clean your lenses, and a repair kit for your cables is in order.
Best/Tommy

Grazie wrote on 4/13/2004, 12:27 AM

Been said . . But Congrats! Have a Ball! ! ! ! Sounds a great gig .. enjoy. HAVE FUN!!!

Grazie

Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/13/2004, 4:31 AM

Congrats!

One small word of caution. Just be aware that the sound you record on a separate DAT or MiniDisc will not be in sync with the video footage. There is a 15 frame difference over 30 minutes, as has been stated here in other posts. With all the quick cutting you'll be doing, it won't/shouldn't be an issue.

Knock yerself out!

J--

FuTz wrote on 4/13/2004, 7:17 AM

shogo:
apart from technical considerations, I'd tell you: stick with the boys, try to *quickly* find in what perspective they differenciate one from each other, what is their "character" (in some way) in the whole video you're gonna make. Do some quick interviews with their "surrounding pals" to get "snap stories" about the boys so you can intercut the whole film with these, or even use it to introduce the boys, create a kind af "aura" before we actually SEE the guys, so you get more PuNcH out of it. Introducing these people will also give that "posse" quality and maybe strenghten these people all together so if you ever get in touch with them in a near future, you'll probalby even yourself be "part of the family" to some degree. Result: even more doors that will open to you, hence giving you a step behind other video guys around that would make the same kind of project.
Anyway, it's my CAN$0.02
Like these gentlemen up here said: have fun and knock yourself out!

shogo wrote on 4/13/2004, 7:18 AM

"First of all.. Congratulations! Sounds like a cool gig. Also sounds like you have the same video intersts as me. I also work with local bands making videos, recording live shows and what not. I haven't yet figured out how to get paid for it though so you're one up on me ;)"

Like I said before I shot two videos for free for a local rap group and put quite a bit of work into. I created some special effects and such and they thought it was cool. Also I shot everything in Frame Mode on my XL1s and my GL2 and everyone thought it was more like film and didn't look cheaply made. Another thing to remember rappers love to see themselves on T.V. and are willing to pay to get the promotion and recognition. Not sure what type of bands you are shooting but rappers tend to be very loyal if you show them genuine interest and want to do a good job for them.

Thanks for the info on recording live I had thought of doing that but they wanted to have the original music but I will suggest that to them to get that raw uncut feal to it.

shogo wrote on 4/13/2004, 7:39 AM

Thanks futz good idea, one thing when I am interviewing them aside from basic questions about each group. What other questions could I ask, I am planning on bringing some prewritten questions but I also want to differintiate them for each group so it dosen't sound canned.

What you said about being "one the family" is true we still have BBQ's with member's of the last group and my kids still call one of them "Uncle Cheesy" don't ask where that came from but he's cool with it and calls them his "Little Ken Folk" it's nice to be appreciated.

They always are talking about their "Camera Man Dave" and even the manager of the tour is talking about when they "blow up" that when it comes to doing a real video that they allready have their video director. I don't know about all of that but like I said I really like working with rap bands because of how loyal and the respect they give you when you work hard for them. Don't know of a more rewarding type of video job yet!

BrianStanding wrote on 4/13/2004, 7:46 AM

I'll second everything that's been said here already, especially about interspersing candid interviews with the live footage. It will also make your editing much easier.

If you can (and the group will let you...) see if you can get some tidbits that work against stereotype. Everyone's familiar with the "gangsta-rap" image. What would be interesting is finding out something unexpected about these guys.

Can you interview any of them with their proud moms 'n' pops or kid siblings? Do any of them do any volunteer work? Do they have other interests or hobbies away from rap? Do they typically have arguments about things outside of music?

Also don't skimp on the crowd shots. If you're focusing on one song, stay tight on the performers for the song of interest, and maybe shoot one entire song of a similar tempo devoted to crowd reaction. This will also help you with editing.

Oh yeah... have a BLAST!

filmy wrote on 4/13/2004, 8:26 AM

I would add on a few things to all of this - as it is a tour film you should keep your eyes and ears open for tour related items, things that can't be pre-scripted. Say you are at a show filming and you notice security not doing their job, or maybe they are doing it too well. Say the PA is really poor at a show, or the monitors don't work. Say there is one show where 2 songs into the set a piece of gear blows up - bass amp, guitar amp whatever. How about the show where the promoter bails about before paying the band. These are thing things that will really make your film interesting and a true road picture.

This may sound bad but really it is the things that go wrong that make for those Spinal Tap moments. I have seen lots of little tour films and what not and many of them only show how 'great' things went...all perfect. The artist is shown all nice and pretty and being excited. The crowd is perfect. The staff is perfect. After the show is perfect. I mean for people who have never been around that type of stuff it seems...well...perfect. That isn't reality and as wishful thinking as it may be - documentarys should show reality.

shogo wrote on 4/13/2004, 12:32 PM

Thanks B and filmy, these are some really good idea's thanks, I will try to get some candid shot's of them in a positive light out side of stereo types. And filmy what you say is absoulutley true capture some of the real life drama that these things have in them excellent suggestions!

stormstereo wrote on 4/13/2004, 12:40 PM

I love Filmy's ideas here. Well, there's many great ideas in this thread! I came to think of another one; Although you want your documentary to be unique, you can try copy some ideas from your favorite rockumentaries. If you've seen something you really like on TV, try to analyse what makes it so good and resemble bits and pieces in your own production.
Best/Tommy

[r]Evolution wrote on 4/14/2004, 8:20 PM

Actually you may be able to get away with sincing their CD to their live Video. A lot of M.C.'s use a DAT or Drum Machine or Sampler of some sort during live shows. If your groups are doing this then they will always play at the same tempo as it's already set in their music. (I shoot underground Hip Hop in LA) Bands are the hardest as they almost never play a song the same way twice. One problem you will have if you sync them to their recordings is you will lose their live energy. As you know most Hip Hop Acts are layed back and cool on their recordings. The story changes when they are in front of their fans rockin it on stage. Their will be a lot of energy that is not present on their album. You will be able to see this if you try and sync their performance to their CD.

Honestly, and I'm speaking from experience, if you can get a live feed from the board you'll get clearer audio. If the sound guy is a good sound engineer and has them mixed well, you may be able to also charge the band for the 'live audio'. You can easily bring the audio into VEGAS or SoundForge and Sweeten/Master it. If you do things right... trust me... this will be the first of many gigs for you. If you're good at what you do, the word will spread and more M.C.'s & Bands will want you to hook them up too.

Story Board...Story Board...Story Board...Story Board...Story Board!
I say this so that you get an idea in your head of what you want to do before you begin to do it. This will help you a lot in post. Don't begin to edit without knowing what you want to see.

I would also suggest that since this is your first gig... Know your limitations! Don't be afraid to ask others you know to do AfterEffects style work or Titling or Audio. You'll soon see that this can become overwhelming for one person.

Make it happen bro!

dhill wrote on 4/15/2004, 2:02 AM

I did a video project like this for the artist I tour with (I'm a musician for a living) so here's a few thoughts.

As far as the audio goes, it's REALLY hard to get a board mix that sounds great, unless they are just lip synching, so I think the synching up to the cd would be a more professional sounding end product. The only way around that is to do a multitrack recording of each live performance and mix it later, but that's probably not in the cards for you/them since you didn't mention it. I used the audio for my project from the artist's live cd. I ran into the same problems you will have. That being that the live version isn't going to be the same as the recorded version. You might be one step ahead of me though since it's rap...they're probably rapping to a backing track that's the same tempo as the cd so synching up won't be as bad as the 400 hours I spent doing mine! 400hours...well, I did tell you I was a musician for a living so I'm a bit slower than a professional editor! HAHA

I found that it was hard to make the live performances exciting without at least a 3 cam shoot. I had two mobile cams and one on a tripod at the sound board for some of the shows and they looked much better than the ones where we only had 2 cameras.

I started my edit by finding all of the spots that I could line up the audio without synching problems (doing fast cuts of course) and then I would know where I needed my filler footage. I used crowd shots, slow-mo on a close up of a musician, or a strange effect for my filler spots mostly. I also would put a transition over problem spots and it would distract the viewer into not noticing that the synch was a little out.

After a while I figured out that it was helpful to think of how you're going to set up the transition of going from talking to the live show. It works much better if the ending comments lead into the songs/songs that you're about to cut to. They could talk about writing a certain song or two or what the song is about or how they love to perform live for their fans. When/if the talking doesn't smoothly transition into the live show then you could fade to short title pages that say the date and the venue. I did a lot of them with still shots of the artist and the date, etc. of the performance laid over top of the still (in Photoshop). That way, all of the title pages were different so it didn't get too boring. I also made it so you could see the video playing inside the text of the title page for a couple of the shows to keep it fresh.

One thing none of us have mentioned is that what matters most is what the people paying you want and how they want this project to be presented. The comment of showing the crap that really goes on during a tour (after playing over 1500 live shows I know what you're talking about) is cool, but they might want everything to look "perfect" as was said. The entertainment biz isn't built around reality of course. Any way,it would be cool to clarify things like that before you start. I had to remove a few things from my edit since a couple of the musicians didn't like being portrayed in "a certain light." As I said, reality isn't always what they want people to see.

I've rambled enough. Thanks to all who have responded to my posts over the years! I'm about to start another project so I'll be asking for help again soon.

PS always have a camera ready...I missed quite a few things 'cause my cameras were back in the room or packed away in a suit case.